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Type 2 Diabetes and cardiovascular disease attributable to sugar beverages

nature.com

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Re: Type 2 Diabetes and cardiovascular disease attributable to sugar beverages

#61

Post by toomuchtodo »

bitmasher9 wrote: post #47
toomuchtodo wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also good that GLP-1s have been found to help people patch the reward center around unhealthy diet demand signals. We know these things are bad, we know will power isn't a solution, and we have a fix we can deploy at scale relatively inexpensively. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41988285 ("HN: GLP-1 for Everything") https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42579445 ("HN: Weight loss drugs seem to be driving down gr…

Saying will power isn’t a solution is insulting to everyone that successfully made lifestyle and diet changes to become healthier without pharmaceutical intervention. It may not work for everyone all the time, but I know a lot of people that have made these changes.

If one is insulted, they should revisit their mental model and emotional state. There is no gold star for will power because someone lucked out with genetics and brain chemistry/structure. “Be more lucky” is not actionable for the body you are issued.

We can patch bugs in the human, and we should whenever possible and desired by the person. This helps them make their own luck.

Re: Type 2 Diabetes and cardiovascular disease attributable to sugar beverages

#63

Post by firesteelrain »

arcticbull wrote: post #40
firesteelrain wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is more than twice the price of Wal-Mart! Well, I guess that's the price of convenience. 2/hard boiled eggs - $2.09 @ 7/11 6/hard boiled eggs - $2.96 @ Wal-Mart 6/raw eggs - $2.62 @ Wal-Mart

You're paying for footprint. There's 320 Walmarts in California and almost 2000 7-Elevens. There's zero Walmarts in SF and San Mateo county, and at least 50-Elevens. Those 7-Elevens are often in premium locations downtown.

I am not sure I follow the discussion and its tie into California - I am in the South US

Re: Type 2 Diabetes and cardiovascular disease attributable to sugar beverages

#64

Post by KittenInABox »

bitmasher9 wrote: post #47
toomuchtodo wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also good that GLP-1s have been found to help people patch the reward center around unhealthy diet demand signals. We know these things are bad, we know will power isn't a solution, and we have a fix we can deploy at scale relatively inexpensively. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41988285 ("HN: GLP-1 for Everything") https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42579445 ("HN: Weight loss drugs seem to be driving down gr…

Saying will power isn’t a solution is insulting to everyone that successfully made lifestyle and diet changes to become healthier without pharmaceutical intervention. It may not work for everyone all the time, but I know a lot of people that have made these changes.

By this logic I, a person who has never been at risk of financial insolvency partially due to my lack of consumer addiction/upbringing with financial literacy, should be insulted by someone who says that budgeting isn't a solution to systemic poverty.

Re: Type 2 Diabetes and cardiovascular disease attributable to sugar beverages

#65

Post by athenot »

KittenInABox wrote: post #57
neom wrote: post #39

Interesting. I think folks in the comments here maybe missed this paper is way more about the beverages part making it important. The research is around sugar sweetened beverages (SSBs). If I'm reading it right, the SSBs have a differentmetabolic effect. "Due to their liquid form, SSBs are rapidly consumed and digested, resulting in lower satiety, higher caloric intake and weight gain. High doses of rapidly digested…

I'm curious what is the number of added sugars and above 50kcal peer 8 oz serving. You can get away with saying fruit drinks have no added sugar and still be insanely sugary.

Fruit drinks have a neat trick to increase sugar content. Take apple juice for example: you can evaporate water out of it till it's a sugary syrup, then add it to regular apple juice, and it's still called "100% pure apple juice no sugar added".

(This is also done with various flavor essences from the juice, so they can recombine them in such a way as to produce a uniform flavor all throughout the year regardless of where the fruits are coming from.)

Re: Type 2 Diabetes and cardiovascular disease attributable to sugar beverages

#66

Post by arcticbull »

firesteelrain wrote: post #63
arcticbull wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're paying for footprint. There's 320 Walmarts in California and almost 2000 7-Elevens. There's zero Walmarts in SF and San Mateo county, and at least 50-Elevens. Those 7-Elevens are often in premium locations downtown.

I am not sure I follow the discussion and its tie into California - I am in the South US

I just picked a market.

Re: Type 2 Diabetes and cardiovascular disease attributable to sugar beverages

#67

Post by fwip »

trod1234 wrote: post #59
neom wrote: post #39

Interesting. I think folks in the comments here maybe missed this paper is way more about the beverages part making it important. The research is around sugar sweetened beverages (SSBs). If I'm reading it right, the SSBs have a differentmetabolic effect. "Due to their liquid form, SSBs are rapidly consumed and digested, resulting in lower satiety, higher caloric intake and weight gain. High doses of rapidly digested…

All carbohydrates eventually break down into sugars. Some quite a bit faster than others. What people and scientists haven't been saying in any meaningful way is the truth that carbohydrate poisoning is a real thing. If you eat too much, its harmful. Its common knowledge that medicines may become poisons when taken in too high amounts. This applies to most things in this area. Protein poisoning is fairly easily disco…

Scientists aren't saying it because it's not true.

Re: Type 2 Diabetes and cardiovascular disease attributable to sugar beverages

#68

Post by hombre_fatal »

trod1234 wrote: post #59
neom wrote: post #39

Interesting. I think folks in the comments here maybe missed this paper is way more about the beverages part making it important. The research is around sugar sweetened beverages (SSBs). If I'm reading it right, the SSBs have a differentmetabolic effect. "Due to their liquid form, SSBs are rapidly consumed and digested, resulting in lower satiety, higher caloric intake and weight gain. High doses of rapidly digested…

All carbohydrates eventually break down into sugars. Some quite a bit faster than others. What people and scientists haven't been saying in any meaningful way is the truth that carbohydrate poisoning is a real thing. If you eat too much, its harmful. Its common knowledge that medicines may become poisons when taken in too high amounts. This applies to most things in this area. Protein poisoning is fairly easily disco…

You don't think the scientific literature has anything to say about sugar surplus or junk food surplus?

Carbohydrate poisoning sounds nonsensical though. Too many potatoes and whole grains, for example, aren't poisoning you. More people should be replacing junk food with those things.

It's just a fad to use "carbs" as a euphemism for "junk food" and it only further confuses the discourse about nutrition.

Re: Type 2 Diabetes and cardiovascular disease attributable to sugar beverages

#69

Post by adamc »

Melting_Harps wrote: post #51
siliconc0w wrote: post #37

I'd bet a dollar per gram additive sugar tax in excess of 5g would immediately flatten the chronic disease curve. Maybe double that if it's marketed towards kids. There are a lot of problems besides sugar/HFCS but it's easily towards the top of the list.

> I'd bet a dollar per gram additive sugar tax in excess of 5g would immediately flatten the chronic disease curve. Maybe double that if it's marketed towards kids. There are a lot of problems besides sugar/HFCS but it's easily towards the top of the list. It doesn't, it doesn't even discourage the purchases unless (perhaps?) universally adopted: Boulder, CO has had a sugar tax for a while now, and all it does is pun…

I would expect it to work badly whenever a person could easily cross a boundary. In larger cities -- say, New York -- it would suffer similar, but fewer, problems simply because the average effort of getting outside the city would be higher.

You see this between states when tax regimes differ. Sure, those who live near the border "cheat". But most people live far enough away that they are affected by the tax.

There is lots of counter-evidence to your propositions, notably involving the effect of raising prices on cigarettes, which does discourage smoking.

Re: Type 2 Diabetes and cardiovascular disease attributable to sugar beverages

#70

Post by frameset »

Melting_Harps wrote: post #58
PaulRobinson wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not what has happened in the UK, where sugar tax has been a thing since 2018. It's now actually quite hard to find a sweetened drink - almost all soda-style beverages now are "zero sugar", sweetened with artificial sweeteners. Nobody is buying sugar and pouring it in. Nobody. It's a little too early to determine if this has slowed the prevalence of diabetes in the population. One problem is that other studies have sh…

> It's a complex picture, but sugar taxes seem to be a reasonable way to get sugary drinks off the shelves. As a person who is indifferent to the prospect, I fail to see why? When I lived in the UK a lot of people who couldn't afford real juice would buy 'squash' and drink it as a replacement for juice. I personally found it entirely revolting and way too sugary but on occasion used it in my teas to flavor them: I ju…

> When I lived in the UK a lot of people who couldn't afford real juice would buy 'squash' and drink it as a replacement for juice. I personally found it entirely revolting and way too sugary

Are you aware that you're supposed to dilute squash to taste? It's just concentrated juice. If it's too sweet, you haven't added enough water.

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