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Playstation 5 Pro Shows the Futility of the Video-Game Graphics Race

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Re: Playstation 5 Pro Shows the Futility of the Video-Game Graphics Race

#61

Post by archi42 »

mouse_ wrote: post #12
wetbaby wrote: post #8

I really wish developers on consoles would just accept what kind of performance consoles really offer. There isn't a single reason a game should be 30fps these days if that game tests your motor skills in any way. If you can't hit a locked 60fps target, you need to reassess your visuals. Hearing that 2/3 PS users are switching to 60fps, away from a default of 30fps is really interesting. You can have the best screens…

As long as people keep buying garbage, people will keep selling garbage. Can't really blame them. Framerate aside, a good percentage of modern TVs have abysmal latency. I recently played the original Super Monkey Ball 2 on a gamecube hooked up to a CRT and was shook; that sort of precision would never fly on modern hardware. Game mode helps, but only somewhat, it does not generally solve the issue. For this reason, a…

Not all that glitters is gold. I had a horrible experience with Hollow Knight on the Switch and can't understand how anyone would enjoy that game on that console. I did a video recording and the lag playing on the console screen was easily in the 100ms (iirc; can't find it).

From what I read on Reddit, there are some people who don't notice any lag (even in the aforementioned HK), others notice it in most games. For me, even the Zelda titles have some lag (though these I play on the TV, so it's a bit unfair).

For my part, I'll stick to PC; even if it means crying a little bit on each upgrade. And that's coming from the guy who used to often game at 25fps as a kid; and still enjoys playing the odd couch game (with friends) via wired Steam inhome streaming.

If you (or others) are happy with their experience, that's fine of course ;)

Re: Playstation 5 Pro Shows the Futility of the Video-Game Graphics Race

#62

Post by Zardoz89 »

peterweyand38 wrote: post #26

When was the last time someone came out with a new pen and paper table top role playing game? It's been a while. We're into reruns. Graphics are comparatively an easy problem to ideas that are new.

Almost everyday, it’s the most innovative game development space. You are just out of touch.

https://www.exaltedfuneral.com/collections/new-items

Digest some perspective.

https://youtu.be/zyVTxGpEO30

Re: Playstation 5 Pro Shows the Futility of the Video-Game Graphics Race

#63

Post by surgical_fire »

Maybe an unpopular opinion, but graphical improvements for me have diminishing returns.

From PS1 to PS2 era the leap in graphics was massive. Suddenly those blocky games with a ridiculously short draw distance looked fairly pretty, and ran much better.

From PS2 to PS3 era it was still quite a leap. Games looked much smoother and better detailed. It still felt like a different generation.

From PS3 to PS4 era it was a decent improvement, but a lot less impactful then before. I mean, games got more photorealistic when they went for that style, environments were maybe more immersive, movement more fluid. Still meaningful, I'd say.

From PS4 to PS5 I feel that the improvement was marginal. Games have better lighting thanls to Ray Tracing I think? Overall a little prettier? I to this day question why exactly I bought a PS5, as I got mostly the same experience from the previous generation.

On the other hand, I think most - if not all - AAA devs have been improving in graphics, whereas the gameplay has been very stagnant and interesting.

Perhaps that is why I love my Nintendo Switch a lot more than either PS4 or PS5.

Re: Playstation 5 Pro Shows the Futility of the Video-Game Graphics Race

#64

Post by libertine »

adamc wrote: post #38
libertine wrote: post #17

Here are some problems I have with this article. Sony claimed that their user base compromised on "graphics" for the smoother experience of the "Performance" mode, so I don't see how they missed the ball when they decided to launch a Pro model that helps tackle this user need. Even if it was an excuse and they would release it anyway. The whole "Improved graphics" thing isn't just about "how nice a game looks compare…

Some of it (judging from myself) might be that companies have been pouring resources into graphics for 20 years and the benefit to me, as a gamer, has been modest. Sure, escaping PS1 graphics was good. Better graphics make it possible to recognized smaller features of the screen and interact with them. And, up to a point, better graphics help you imagine the gameworld. But it's gone way overboard. I've looked at what…

> But it's gone way overboard. I've looked at what raytracing can do. In an intellectual way it's impressive. But it doesn't really improve the experience of playing most games, which is driven by writing and gameplay.

I understand that sentiment, but the implementation of ray tracing as part of an improved game experience is bound also to game devs. Art direction and game design are other key aspects of this.

That's why I don't see how Sony can be to blame for this. As for the 700$ price tag, I don't think it's cheap, and I'm not buying it, but I don't think 300$ for a Nintendo Switch is cheap either.

Re: Playstation 5 Pro Shows the Futility of the Video-Game Graphics Race

#65

Post by deafpolygon »

NickC25 wrote: post #51

Agree with other comments regarding play vs. visuals. Don't get me wrong, I've been floored with some of the visuals the PS5 and Xbox have produced, and every generation there's a few titles that just blow my mind with how good they look. But Nintendo has really been the winner here - they march to the beat of their own drum and while their games don't look jaw dropping, the enjoyment I get out of playing them more t…

Not only that, but despite the weaker hardware - most Nintendo games have looked gorgeous.

Re: Playstation 5 Pro Shows the Futility of the Video-Game Graphics Race

#66

Post by proc0 »

twiceaday wrote: post #52
proc0 wrote: post #19

Part of the problem is the lack for AAA studios to take big risks. They keep iterating on old ideas that do not take advantage of powerful hardware. The exception to this is photorealistic graphics, but that obviously limits the type of games that can be made. Only games like GTA 6 will be leveraging hardware in this way, but for most other games the graphical ceiling has been reached. Most games have more than enoug…

You lost me at '... that do not take advantage of powerful hardware.' The risks they should be taking are in making new kinds of experiences ... for existing hardware. There is plenty of room to innovate. They are scared to innovate so you propose that they innovate _and_ require costly hardware upgrades?

I meant in other ways than just pretty graphics. Powerful hardware can be used for game mechanics, adding more interactivity, physics, etc., but AAA mostly just upscales graphics.

Re: Playstation 5 Pro Shows the Futility of the Video-Game Graphics Race

#67

Post by proc0 »

jayd16 wrote: post #49
proc0 wrote: post #19

Part of the problem is the lack for AAA studios to take big risks. They keep iterating on old ideas that do not take advantage of powerful hardware. The exception to this is photorealistic graphics, but that obviously limits the type of games that can be made. Only games like GTA 6 will be leveraging hardware in this way, but for most other games the graphical ceiling has been reached. Most games have more than enoug…

I'm a bit lost by your arguments here. You're saying that games need more CPU and Sony decided to ignore that?

Powerful hardware can help innovate in areas other than pretty graphics, but they're not taking those risks, and I'm pointing out that powerful hardware is mostly on the GPU side, but it doesn't have to be that way. Games could take advantage of powerful CPUs, but at the moment you just need a powerful GPU for the most part. CPUs would be needed for game logic and mechanics, but since there isn't a ton of innovation in that area then it hasn't been a requirement for games. At the same time GPUs could be leveraged for things other than graphics like AI based animations to allow for generative animations, etc.

Re: Playstation 5 Pro Shows the Futility of the Video-Game Graphics Race

#68

Post by slowmovintarget »

What most game studios have forgotten is to put the "game" in video (or my preference, computer) games. They forget the fun.

The first Unreal was an amazing spectacle, but it was also a blast to play. There are games that jam pack everything they can onto the screen, ultra hi-res this, and ultra-realistic that... but they're missing the play.

Minecraft is not fun because of it's amazing fidelity. It's because of the things it allows you to do, and how much it leaves to your imagination.

Re: Playstation 5 Pro Shows the Futility of the Video-Game Graphics Race

#69

Post by proc0 »

adamc wrote: post #25
proc0 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Games are being held back by cultural stigma. At its core it's a new artistic medium, just like moving pictures (film) was back in the early 20th century. Imagination is the only limit here, but society at large still thinks "video games" are for kids. Perhaps if it was called interactive entertainment or something like that, people would be more likely to get into it.

No, that isn't the problem. My 70 year old brother plays video games.

That's one data point. If you compare it to movies and shows, the audience skews a lot younger. If you ask the average person their perception is that they are too busy to play games, yet they probably spend many hours watching movies and shows.

It's not as much as it was 10 years ago, but the perception of wasting time is still there. I'm mostly talking about the US though.

Re: Playstation 5 Pro Shows the Futility of the Video-Game Graphics Race

#70

Post by 0x000xca0xfe »

The biggest problem with realistic graphics is the ever growing amount of busywork required to keep it all together that seems to overwhelm game developers. It makes everything feel very "rigid", like walking through a museum full of stunning sculptures but you are not allowed to touch anything or the illusion falls apart.

One example: In the old 2D versions of Anno you could shoot animals on the islands with cannons but you can't do it anymore in the newer 3D games. It's kinda stupid but was hilarious and was probably cut because adding those small "random" interactions is so much harder at increased realism.

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