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How on-the-wrist sleep apnea detection works

empirical.health

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Re: How on-the-wrist sleep apnea detection works

#61

Post by tstrimple »

GaggiX wrote: post #18

The new Apple Watch 10 has an 18-hour battery life, so if you use it while you sleep, you won't have much left. I have no idea how some people can charge their smartwatch 1 or more times a day.

I picked the Apple Watch Ultra mainly for the extended battery life. I charge it 15 minutes or so every other day. One of the more useful features I've discovered is it will give you a low battery warning if it detects that you need to charge before bed to maintain overnight power rather than just a fixed percent based warning. That's made it very easy to keep it topped up for tracking my abysmal sleep.

Re: How on-the-wrist sleep apnea detection works

#62

Post by wilsonnb3 »

breck wrote: post #32

If you're interested in this, I'd recommend reading the 1870 [public domain] book "Shut Your Mouth and Save your Life". Internet Archive has it: https://archive.org/details/b28114450 Also look into "mouth taping".

You want to at least give a brief overview as to why I should trust medical advice from a book written before germ theory was widely accepted?

This has all the hallmarks of quackery.

Re: How on-the-wrist sleep apnea detection works

#63

Post by vlachen »

breck wrote: post #32

If you're interested in this, I'd recommend reading the 1870 [public domain] book "Shut Your Mouth and Save your Life". Internet Archive has it: https://archive.org/details/b28114450 Also look into "mouth taping".

I don't mouth-tape, and I use a CPAP. However, since I prefer the nasal cushion type, I did run into issues with my partner regarding my mouth falling open and horrible "pumping air through your sinuses" noises emanating from my face hole. Instead of spending more from the home health shop, I just grabbed headband that came in some past 5K race bag, and I strap it around my head prior to the CPAP head gear. In my particular case, that very slight amount of pressure keeps my mouth closed (and spouse happy.) I have to wonder if just using the chin-strap would be enough to turn off the damnable machine. Given the results with the chin strap, I have considered mouth taping, but I'm not about to shave just for that test.

Re: How on-the-wrist sleep apnea detection works

#64

Post by [deleted] »

wilsonnb3 wrote: post #55
lysace wrote: post #8

The gatekeeping in the CPAP field is so insane. 1. Yes, we should regulate manufacturers intensely. 2. No, we shouldn't regulate to whom companies should be allowed to sell them. The defaults are good enough for most. Provide an easy to use control for max pressure and people will figure it out. Perhaps a knob? I claim: During the past decade, the risk of being maltreated by a personally set-up CPAP unit has been far…

I generally agree with you but even people with a prescription who have sleep apnea have a lot of trouble using their CPAP consistently and correctly, even after it is titrated by professionals in an overnight session. Some people obviously are capable of diagnosing and solving their own medical problems and are willing to learn and do the work but most people aren't. I don't think that opening up CPAPs to the masses…

[deleted]

Re: How on-the-wrist sleep apnea detection works

#65

Post by jzig »

phickey wrote: post #40
lysace wrote: post #8

The gatekeeping in the CPAP field is so insane. 1. Yes, we should regulate manufacturers intensely. 2. No, we shouldn't regulate to whom companies should be allowed to sell them. The defaults are good enough for most. Provide an easy to use control for max pressure and people will figure it out. Perhaps a knob? I claim: During the past decade, the risk of being maltreated by a personally set-up CPAP unit has been far…

They don't advertise themselves as such, for obvious reasons, but there is at least one online CPAP dealer in the US that will sell to you without prescription verification. (Why should I wait 3 months for an appointment, drive an hour round trip, and $50 copay, to renew my rx so I can buy more masks, which wear out after a year or two?)

What to search for? Link?

Re: How on-the-wrist sleep apnea detection works

#67

Post by breck »

mikestew wrote: post #58
breck wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are right, on the list of things that are dangerous, you would find mouth taping, probably right next to using a fork.

You’re right, medical advice from the 1870s and TikTok videos, what could go wrong? But I did “look into ‘mouth taping’” as you suggested, and I’ll bet half the page titles were “Mouth-taping: is it safe?” or “…does it work?” At what point does Betteridge’s Law of Headlines[0] kick in? [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge's_law_of_headlines

> You’re right, medical advice from the 1870s and TikTok videos, what could go wrong?

Have you read the book? Do you think I'd be recommending something that didn't have a very strong dataset backing it?

> At what point does Betteridge’s Law of Headlines[0] kick in?

Nothing is easier to manipulate than digital symbols. Thus, when talking about patterns one finds in digital symbols, one much be very very careful to build a trusthworthy dataset. Do you have a trusthworthy dataset on Betterridge's headlines?

Re: How on-the-wrist sleep apnea detection works

#68

Post by GaggiX »

smelendez wrote: post #24
GaggiX wrote: post #18

The new Apple Watch 10 has an 18-hour battery life, so if you use it while you sleep, you won't have much left. I have no idea how some people can charge their smartwatch 1 or more times a day.

People probably use it principally as a fitness (and sleep?) tracker, and charge it while they work

I mean it's still a watch so hopefully people are going to use it as a watch.

Re: How on-the-wrist sleep apnea detection works

#69

Post by BeetleB »

lysace wrote: post #8

The gatekeeping in the CPAP field is so insane. 1. Yes, we should regulate manufacturers intensely. 2. No, we shouldn't regulate to whom companies should be allowed to sell them. The defaults are good enough for most. Provide an easy to use control for max pressure and people will figure it out. Perhaps a knob? I claim: During the past decade, the risk of being maltreated by a personally set-up CPAP unit has been far…

> During the past decade, the risk of being maltreated by a personally set-up CPAP unit has been far, far smaller than the risk of not being treated at all.

There have been over 500 confirmed deaths due to the Philips CPAP. The number of unconfirmed deaths would be an order of magnitude higher, in my opinion.

Thing is, the CPAP issue could be argued for both sides:

"See how a small manufacturing defect could cause so many deaths? We definitely need to regulate this heavily!"

OR

"See how many people died due to Phillips because they didn't have alternatives?"

Re: How on-the-wrist sleep apnea detection works

#70

Post by lysace »

wilsonnb3 wrote: post #55
lysace wrote: post #8

The gatekeeping in the CPAP field is so insane. 1. Yes, we should regulate manufacturers intensely. 2. No, we shouldn't regulate to whom companies should be allowed to sell them. The defaults are good enough for most. Provide an easy to use control for max pressure and people will figure it out. Perhaps a knob? I claim: During the past decade, the risk of being maltreated by a personally set-up CPAP unit has been far…

I generally agree with you but even people with a prescription who have sleep apnea have a lot of trouble using their CPAP consistently and correctly, even after it is titrated by professionals in an overnight session. Some people obviously are capable of diagnosing and solving their own medical problems and are willing to learn and do the work but most people aren't. I don't think that opening up CPAPs to the masses…

> Regulation that streamlines the involvement of insurance providers would probably be enough IMO, they are the real reason it is difficult to get a CPAP most of the time.

The obvious solution is to bypass the insurance providers.

Also: when it comes to fitting masks to faces and figuring out the optimal pressure rates - these seem like pretty obvious application of machine learning algorithms, don't you think?

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