Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

How on-the-wrist sleep apnea detection works

empirical.health

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 170 posts

Re: How on-the-wrist sleep apnea detection works

#51

Post by titusjohnson »

simcop2387 wrote: post #47
lysace wrote: post #8

The gatekeeping in the CPAP field is so insane. 1. Yes, we should regulate manufacturers intensely. 2. No, we shouldn't regulate to whom companies should be allowed to sell them. The defaults are good enough for most. Provide an easy to use control for max pressure and people will figure it out. Perhaps a knob? I claim: During the past decade, the risk of being maltreated by a personally set-up CPAP unit has been far…

> 2. No, we shouldn't regulate to whom companies should be allowed to sell them. The defaults are good enough for most. Provide an easy to use control for max pressure and people will figure it out. I'm iffy on the machines themselves for this, mostly because I'm just ignorant about the risks and potential issues. But this absolutely should be the case for the consumable/wear items that go along with it. There's been…

> I'd be fine with it being something as simple as the local pharmacy can keep them in the back and you bring in the prescription from the doctor

Just curious, why do you think a Dr. should be involved at all?

Re: How on-the-wrist sleep apnea detection works

#52

Post by a_vanderbilt »

smaudet wrote: post #42
a_vanderbilt wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The health industry as a whole is insane. I support the use of regulation and law where it ensures safety and efficacy but in the U.S. it's currently a patent and legal minefield. So much of it comes directly from special interests who want gatekeeping to keep out new/disruptive competition.

On the other side, as a consumer, I don't really want "new/disruptive competition" - I want stability and a legal guarantee my rights aren't being trod all over. Large companies e.g. Google/Apple are just inherently untrustworthy in this regards, smaller overseas ones are no better (little to no regulation). So please, no, stay the ** out of my health, thanks.

You can have gains in both today if certain issues are addressed. Innovation doesn't mean a lack of liability or responsibility for negligence.

In the U.S. you already have relatively minimal rights in healthcare. Your stability and legal guarantees are already compromised compared to your worldly neighbors. I too distrust tech companies in healthcare due to their differing motivations and organizational cultures.

I want the red tape to go away, but I also want strong regulations and safety nets to ensure the drugs and devices we are prescribing to people are effective and safe.

Re: How on-the-wrist sleep apnea detection works

#53

Post by breck »

VeejayRampay wrote: post #48
breck wrote: post #32

If you're interested in this, I'd recommend reading the 1870 [public domain] book "Shut Your Mouth and Save your Life". Internet Archive has it: https://archive.org/details/b28114450 Also look into "mouth taping".

mouth taping is dangerous for many reasons, you should not be advocating it in a public forum

You are right, on the list of things that are dangerous, you would find mouth taping, probably right next to using a fork.

Re: How on-the-wrist sleep apnea detection works

#54

Post by IOT_Apprentice »

tlb wrote: post #36
lysace wrote: post #8

The gatekeeping in the CPAP field is so insane. 1. Yes, we should regulate manufacturers intensely. 2. No, we shouldn't regulate to whom companies should be allowed to sell them. The defaults are good enough for most. Provide an easy to use control for max pressure and people will figure it out. Perhaps a knob? I claim: During the past decade, the risk of being maltreated by a personally set-up CPAP unit has been far…

That should have been done from day 1. Now, however, there are 1000s of doctors who make fat stacks prescribing CPAP machines, and they'll fight tooth and nail to not lose their whole business.

The car salesman who we worked with leasing our Lexus had a bad flu and didn’t wear his mask ONE night and died in his sleep. We found out when we went back to the dealer. He left wife and a special needs son. I lie my father before me suffer from extreme sleep apnea. I want to make sure my sons have the detection this will bring.

Re: How on-the-wrist sleep apnea detection works

#55

Post by wilsonnb3 »

lysace wrote: post #8

The gatekeeping in the CPAP field is so insane. 1. Yes, we should regulate manufacturers intensely. 2. No, we shouldn't regulate to whom companies should be allowed to sell them. The defaults are good enough for most. Provide an easy to use control for max pressure and people will figure it out. Perhaps a knob? I claim: During the past decade, the risk of being maltreated by a personally set-up CPAP unit has been far…

I generally agree with you but even people with a prescription who have sleep apnea have a lot of trouble using their CPAP consistently and correctly, even after it is titrated by professionals in an overnight session.

Some people obviously are capable of diagnosing and solving their own medical problems and are willing to learn and do the work but most people aren't.

I don't think that opening up CPAPs to the masses would suddenly "solve" sleep apnea, most people will still need to go through a similar process that exists now.

Regulation that streamlines the involvement of insurance providers would probably be enough IMO, they are the real reason it is difficult to get a CPAP most of the time.

Re: How on-the-wrist sleep apnea detection works

#56

Post by renewiltord »

jrockway wrote: post #31
tptacek wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's only in the US, right? (My flimsy understanding is that blood oxygen measurement is how at-home sleep studies work?)

At-home sleep studies measure heart rate (maybe ekg, some probe is on your skin), blood oxygen, sound, and the direction of gravity relative to your testing device (to classify results by "back", "side", "prone", etc.) I did one of these and it was the worst night of sleep I ever had. It's somewhat invasive. Meanwhile, I sleep with my watch every night with no problems.

Amusingly my Apple Watch pulse ox showed low so I did a sleep study. It's invasive, but it plugs into your nostrils (and in my case held them open). Slept like a baby. Next day 99% was the lowest reading. No problem. Now I use these sleep strips from this company called Intake. Sleep well. Holds nose open. I have a deviated septum, apparently. I think it's from falling off a tree onto my nose as a child, and being hit in the face by basketball numerous times. But probably not.

What was funny was that at-home sleep study was damned good sleep because it held my nose open!

Re: How on-the-wrist sleep apnea detection works

#57

Post by renewiltord »

lysace wrote: post #8

The gatekeeping in the CPAP field is so insane. 1. Yes, we should regulate manufacturers intensely. 2. No, we shouldn't regulate to whom companies should be allowed to sell them. The defaults are good enough for most. Provide an easy to use control for max pressure and people will figure it out. Perhaps a knob? I claim: During the past decade, the risk of being maltreated by a personally set-up CPAP unit has been far…

Absolutely, but most safety departments will happily do low probability kills over massive population over high probability kills over low population. You can lose thousands to the former to save 10s to the latter.

Re: How on-the-wrist sleep apnea detection works

#58

Post by mikestew »

breck wrote: post #53
VeejayRampay wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

mouth taping is dangerous for many reasons, you should not be advocating it in a public forum

You are right, on the list of things that are dangerous, you would find mouth taping, probably right next to using a fork.

You’re right, medical advice from the 1870s and TikTok videos, what could go wrong?

But I did “look into ‘mouth taping’” as you suggested, and I’ll bet half the page titles were “Mouth-taping: is it safe?” or “…does it work?” At what point does Betteridge’s Law of Headlines[0] kick in?

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge's_law_of_headlines

Re: How on-the-wrist sleep apnea detection works

#59

Post by jjk166 »

smaudet wrote: post #42
a_vanderbilt wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The health industry as a whole is insane. I support the use of regulation and law where it ensures safety and efficacy but in the U.S. it's currently a patent and legal minefield. So much of it comes directly from special interests who want gatekeeping to keep out new/disruptive competition.

On the other side, as a consumer, I don't really want "new/disruptive competition" - I want stability and a legal guarantee my rights aren't being trod all over. Large companies e.g. Google/Apple are just inherently untrustworthy in this regards, smaller overseas ones are no better (little to no regulation). So please, no, stay the ** out of my health, thanks.

That's the cool thing about competition though - you can continue spending your money on the current super expensive option if you like. But others who may not value that stability can choose something else.

Personally, I consider big pharma companies the absolute least trustworthy, and I would never choose to purchase anything from them if I would not literally otherwise die. Regulations are not fundamentally bad, but the current situation is obviously a case of regulatory capture.

Re: How on-the-wrist sleep apnea detection works

#60

Post by 4fterd4rk »

GaggiX wrote: post #18

The new Apple Watch 10 has an 18-hour battery life, so if you use it while you sleep, you won't have much left. I have no idea how some people can charge their smartwatch 1 or more times a day.

I keep the charger plugged into my computer. I slap the watch onto the charger every morning as I drink my coffee and read my e-mails/news. It's... not difficult to imagine...
Post reply on HN