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Redis is forked

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Re: Redis is forked

#61

Post by alex_lav »

Comma2976 wrote: post #27
hnthrowaway6543 wrote: post #4

Generally my stance with these forks born from community drama is "wait and see." Sometimes the fork will gain traction and become the de facto "true" version (see Hudson -> Jenkins). Sometimes the fork will flop and people will largely stick to the original despite whatever caused the schism (see Terraform -> OpenTofu). Many of these recent forks are being done because people won't want AWS/GCP/Azure to slap a UI on…

The hyperscalers weren't selling Terraform though, Hashicorp was losing to Terragrunt, Spacelift et al, who had decent to good offerings. I'd say Elasticsearch is still the comparison to make here for a product that clouds just resold, then again, Redis the company didn't build Redis the software and their latest marketing smells more of VC hawkery than any reasonable pitch

> Hashicorp was losing to Terragrunt, Spacelift et al, who had decent to good offerings.

Would love some data in support of this statement. Not saying you're wrong necessarily, just it feels like a perception vs. reality comment potentially.

Re: Redis is forked

#62

Post by davidw »

hnthrowaway6543 wrote: post #4

Generally my stance with these forks born from community drama is "wait and see." Sometimes the fork will gain traction and become the de facto "true" version (see Hudson -> Jenkins). Sometimes the fork will flop and people will largely stick to the original despite whatever caused the schism (see Terraform -> OpenTofu). Many of these recent forks are being done because people won't want AWS/GCP/Azure to slap a UI on…

Yes, a real fork isn't just a new repository, it's recreating the community that drives an open source project around the new codebase.

Re: Redis is forked

#63

Post by thiago_fm »

eatonphil wrote: post #35

Why, unlike Redis and Elasticsearch and Terraform, was there no big community fork of MongoDB when it was relicensed? Cockroach, Materialize, and MariaDB were all also relicensed without massive backlash, I think. But I think that's because they had fewer users at the time. But Mongo's was the one relicense event that didn't produce so much shock that a new fork came out of it. And Mongo's stock is doing great, if th…

Most people I know (including me) that used MongoDB in their companies for sometime, already carried a lot of regrets after 6 months. I think the community were not so excited about forking or doing anything with it, when there are better battle-tested solutions

I believe it takes an organization a huge inertia to be stuck with it, possibly if you managed to grow your company really quickly. But most projects I've seen that used mongoDB ended up being rewritten/thrown away

I find it astonishing when I see how much mongoDB has managed to grow its revenues, now its like $2B trailing when literally nobody needs it

RDBMS's can be scaled to "planetary" scale and once you throw in a few other noSQL DBs to fill in other gaps (like Redis), you literally will never need to pay a license

MongoDB's success is probably a similar case to Oracle, there are many OSS alternatives but some old businesses have the foundation of its business on that db and moving out would have a huge cost, so they accept shredding millions to software that OSS have even better alternatives

Re: Redis is forked

#64

Post by snotrockets »

Jtsummers wrote: post #56
snotrockets wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disregarding the question of if the CSP compete fairly with providers of open source SaaS, your math is broken: AWS revenue is about $90.76B, though most of it isn't from Redis, I'd assume. But let's be generous, and assume 10% of that is. So about $10mm. For the recent version, Redis-the-company contributions to Redis-the-software were less than third of the code base, so let's say they get $4mm. That's very little…

You must mean something other than 10%, that would be $9 billion by your numbers. 0.1% would be about $9 million so would be closer to your envelope math.

OP suggested the CSP should give 0.1% of their revenue to open source software they make their revenue from. As Redis isn't the only SaaS AWS offers, I was gracious and allocated 10% of those 0.1% to it.

Re: Redis is forked

#65

Post by silisili »

Thev00d00 wrote: post #21
dainiusse wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it is too early to evaluate Terraform/OpenToFu. They're diverging now and it looks like OpenToFu are bringing on some wanted features.

There is no incentive for users of tf to move, consumers are not impacted by the licensing changes. Opentofu hasn't shipped a 1.7 stable with removed blocks yet, whilst terraform is already on 1.8 with provider functions

IIRC, Gitlab runners gives you a big warning with tf telling you to use opentf, so that provides some incentive.

Re: Redis is forked

#66

Post by [deleted] »

snotrockets wrote: post #64
Jtsummers wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You must mean something other than 10%, that would be $9 billion by your numbers. 0.1% would be about $9 million so would be closer to your envelope math.

OP suggested the CSP should give 0.1% of their revenue to open source software they make their revenue from. As Redis isn't the only SaaS AWS offers, I was gracious and allocated 10% of those 0.1% to it.

[deleted]

Re: Redis is forked

#67

Post by sanderjd »

snotrockets wrote: post #26
hnthrowaway6543 wrote: post #4

Generally my stance with these forks born from community drama is "wait and see." Sometimes the fork will gain traction and become the de facto "true" version (see Hudson -> Jenkins). Sometimes the fork will flop and people will largely stick to the original despite whatever caused the schism (see Terraform -> OpenTofu). Many of these recent forks are being done because people won't want AWS/GCP/Azure to slap a UI on…

> Many of these recent forks are being done because people won't want AWS/GCP/Azure to slap a UI on top of their free open-source product and resell it, making tens of millions of dollars per day in the process. I can't really blame them. I won't blame them for regretting their past actions, but I hope the lesson would be learned: if you want to put limitation on the use of your software, you shouldn't have licensed…

First of all, you can "recall a gift", if it is legal. I don't think I've seen people arguing that these re-licensing actions are not legal.

But if you mean that you can't recall a gift without making people mad, then yep, that's true! But keeping people from being mad is not the only thing that matters.

But the real problem I have with, "I hope the lesson will be learned" is that the lesson people are learning is "don't try to build ambitious software requiring a lot of work from a dedicated core team using an open source license; you're going to find yourself damned if you do and damned if you don't".

And I think that really sucks! And sadly the ship has already sailed here. I'm certain we're going to see way fewer products with open source licenses because of all of this. And I think it's unlikely we'll even see as many products with "source available" licenses because, how is it worth the hassle to release source when the community has shown more good will to projects that are entirely proprietary?

I really think I'm going to look back at the last 15 years or so in awe at how often I had the luxury of digging into the behavior of software I rely on, by reading the code.

Re: Redis is forked

#68

Post by moufestaphio »

Diederich wrote: post #31
malkosta wrote: post #25

Valkey is the way for me...not that much to think or consider...

Can you expand on the high points from your perspective? Thanks.

As I understand it, linux has dependencies on Redis. Since redis licence change, that can't work so linux needs an alternative. Linux foundation made a fork of redis named valkey, which was instantly backed by most of the Core maintainers, and many large companies (AWS, GCP, Oracle, Snap).

So it seems obvious that this fork which will be part of linux dependencies, has backing of big corps and core maintainers isn't going anywhere and is likely the 'new redis'.

https://www.linuxfoundation.org/press/linux-foundation-launc...

Re: Redis is forked

#69

Post by aydyn »

bevekspldnw wrote: post #14

As somebody who pulled down an open source project I find this trope of FOSS losing its way for greed utterly disingenuous. People need to put food on the table, period. I’ve had people take my work and make more money from it than I have, with no attribution or credit. Then I pulled it down and got a lot of people asking why it’s no longer free, when I tell them I can sell them a license they don’t even reply. I car…

Have you made meaningfully more money from it after taking it down?

Re: Redis is forked

#70

Post by xmprt »

waiwai933 wrote: post #52
noodlesUK wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. It has only been a few months since the split. I have noticed more and more uptake of OpenTofu amongst colleagues, and I've personally switched. The thing that makes the difference is what is running on people's laptops, because that's what people will eventually put into prod.

That works while OpenTofu and Terraform files are compatible - but once they no longer are, presumably you'd have to standardise on one or the other.

The point is that once they are no longer compatible, people would standardize on the one that they're familiar with which is most likely the one that's running on their machine.
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