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Redis is forked

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Re: Redis is forked

#51
post #46
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vector databases aren't for key value retrieval, they're for similarity search. What's that got to do with onnx?

Onnx allows arbitrary bundling and execution of ML models.. so maybe something to with the "run it local and private"?

Vector databases don't contain ML models. There is nothing that is learned. Here is a typical algorithm: https://www.pinecone.io/learn/series/faiss/hnsw/

It is all about performance; latency and recall.

Re: Redis is forked

#52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it is too early to evaluate Terraform/OpenToFu. They're diverging now and it looks like OpenToFu are bringing on some wanted features.

I agree. It has only been a few months since the split. I have noticed more and more uptake of OpenTofu amongst colleagues, and I've personally switched. The thing that makes the difference is what is running on people's laptops, because that's what people will eventually put into prod.

That works while OpenTofu and Terraform files are compatible - but once they no longer are, presumably you'd have to standardise on one or the other.

Re: Redis is forked

#53

Why, unlike Redis and Elasticsearch and Terraform, was there no big community fork of MongoDB when it was relicensed? Cockroach, Materialize, and MariaDB were all also relicensed without massive backlash, I think. But I think that's because they had fewer users at the time. But Mongo's was the one relicense event that didn't produce so much shock that a new fork came out of it. And Mongo's stock is doing great, if th…

Definitely an interesting question. Some things that may explain why --

Mongo was always AGPL and relicensed to SSPL. This had the following consequences:

* Very few companies and zero large cloud companies ever attempted to run the MongoDB codebase in production as a managed service, other than MongoDB the company.

* Mostly because of the above, MongoDB did not receive many code contributions that did not originate from within the company. There were some, but not nearly to the extent of the others you listed

* The difference between AGPL and SSPL is not nearly as large as the difference between BSD and SSPL or Apache and SSPL.

Re: Redis is forked

#54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Many of these recent forks are being done because people won't want AWS/GCP/Azure to slap a UI on top of their free open-source product and resell it, making tens of millions of dollars per day in the process. I can't really blame them. I won't blame them for regretting their past actions, but I hope the lesson would be learned: if you want to put limitation on the use of your software, you shouldn't have licensed…

With the noise people make when you don't use an OSI open-source license, little wonder. But when Redis started I think we didn't yet boardly understand the limitations of OSI licenses in the era of big tech cloud computing. To people starting projects today, you have no excuse, we know better. Don't use OSI open-source unless it's entirely a labor of love that you're giving away free. OSI Open-source business models…

> But when Redis started I think we didn't yet boardly understand the limitations of OSI licenses in the era of big tech cloud computing.

According to antirez, he understood the implications of licensing Redis as BSD: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39863371

Re: Redis is forked

#55

If AWS and other cloud providers gave if only 0.1% of the profit they generate out of these open source projects back to the developers we probably wouldn't have this problem. Unfortunately they don't and it's only fair that eventually those developers take it in their own hands. It's not a great situation but it's certainly understandable.

Which contributors would get the money? Would you allocate it according to number of commits? Would it include corp contributors?

Re: Redis is forked

#56

If AWS and other cloud providers gave if only 0.1% of the profit they generate out of these open source projects back to the developers we probably wouldn't have this problem. Unfortunately they don't and it's only fair that eventually those developers take it in their own hands. It's not a great situation but it's certainly understandable.

Disregarding the question of if the CSP compete fairly with providers of open source SaaS, your math is broken: AWS revenue is about $90.76B, though most of it isn't from Redis, I'd assume. But let's be generous, and assume 10% of that is. So about $10mm. For the recent version, Redis-the-company contributions to Redis-the-software were less than third of the code base, so let's say they get $4mm. That's very little…

You must mean something other than 10%, that would be $9 billion by your numbers. 0.1% would be about $9 million so would be closer to your envelope math.

Re: Redis is forked

#57

Valkey is the way for me...not that much to think or consider...

Can you expand on the high points from your perspective? Thanks.

It's the most straightforward change from a community and development perspective, and it's got most of the core developers.

Re: Redis is forked

#58
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With the noise people make when you don't use an OSI open-source license, little wonder. But when Redis started I think we didn't yet boardly understand the limitations of OSI licenses in the era of big tech cloud computing. To people starting projects today, you have no excuse, we know better. Don't use OSI open-source unless it's entirely a labor of love that you're giving away free. OSI Open-source business models…

> Don't use OSI open-source unless it's entirely a labor of love that you're giving away free. Well, know what your secret sauce is. I think performance is really the best differentiator. Make a fully behaviourally compatible (maybe not bug for bug) version available and then sell a proprietary faster version. Think an compiler that doesn't due any optimisation and outputs naive code. You know have a useful OSI proje…

It ain't performance, it's cost (which increased performance can improve, but it's far from the only factor).

Re: Redis is forked

#59

Generally my stance with these forks born from community drama is "wait and see." Sometimes the fork will gain traction and become the de facto "true" version (see Hudson -> Jenkins). Sometimes the fork will flop and people will largely stick to the original despite whatever caused the schism (see Terraform -> OpenTofu). Many of these recent forks are being done because people won't want AWS/GCP/Azure to slap a UI on…

The Hudson/Jenkins reference is interesting in that Hudson was soon later abandoned (i.e. donated to Eclipse Foundation).

For Redis there could be space for both, but if I want anything larger than a single instance I'd just sooner use MS Garnet[0].

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39752504

Re: Redis is forked

#60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With the noise people make when you don't use an OSI open-source license, little wonder. But when Redis started I think we didn't yet boardly understand the limitations of OSI licenses in the era of big tech cloud computing. To people starting projects today, you have no excuse, we know better. Don't use OSI open-source unless it's entirely a labor of love that you're giving away free. OSI Open-source business models…

They're not dead, just mostly dead. You can probably set up a decent privately-funded venture to deal in OSI software. The problem comes (as it always does) when the founders think they're the reincarnation of Steve Jobs and deserve a nine-or-ten-figure net worth for making a few nice, but ultimately not earth-shattering, software tools. Then they have to enshittify to get ready for the IPO.

nit: s/founders/executives/ (sometimes they are the same, but not always)
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