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Men In Tech

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Re: Men In Tech

#61

Post by bjornsing »

tomp wrote: post #42
robconery wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're being a tad too literal with your critique (if I may). The whole point is to take you into a realm that's utterly absurd from the male perspective -- which is entirely my point in writing this . Yes, male nurses face weird moments in life - but as you say it's mostly from other men. That has nothing to do with being a woman in the tech industry who get to listen to cracks about "being on the rag" or PMSing whe…

> You'd be surprised the shit women deal with. I'm not sure, but I think you're being too general. I'd rather state this: You'd be surprised by the shit *attractive* women have to deal with. And I 'm pretty sure that attractive men have to deal with the same kind of "shit". They just react to it differently. Edit: I expected the downvotes, but please reply, do you disagree with the stated facts (i.e. does you experie…

As a very attractive man ;) in the tech industry I can tell you you're completely wrong. No, just kidding, no down votes, please. :)

But seriously, in my experience good looks do help in getting you hired in tech. I've thought about it a lot and I think it's because men (perhaps less attractive men) like being the superior of an attractive man. It somehow increases their own feeling of "primal status" to be telling somebody attractive what to do. Ridiculous, I know, but I think it's true. :) You should really have processes in place to prevent frivolous hiring of attractive men. ;)

After you're hired I don't know though...

Re: Men In Tech

#62

Post by dgabriel »

sasha-dv wrote: post #47

Just what women need! Another middle-aged white man fighting for the women's rights. It's condescending. It's just a step away from "A Gay Girl in Damascus".

I respectfully disagree.

Re: Men In Tech

#63

Post by srconstantin »

SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #56
tomp wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When you ask men the same question [...] the answer is just about nothing. From my personal experience, men are much more vulnerable than women. A lot of my friends got assaulted/beaten up (me included) (some multiple times), and it's always been in public , either in clubs or even in broad daylight on a busy street ! As you stated above, women can protect themselves in very simple ways: stay with other people, and…

> men are much more vulnerable than women. ... For men, it's almost impossible to protect ourselves What?

Violence against women and violence against men are different. Men are more likely to be the victims of violent crimes, and especially more likely to be attacked by strangers. Violence against women is more likely to be rape or domestic violence. Men are more likely to wind up in something you could describe as a "fight." Depending on context, you could say that men are in more danger than women (because most violence is man vs. man) or that women are in more danger than men (because a lot of violence against women comes from familiar figures like family members or boyfriends, and because self-defense is often harder for women.)

Re: Men In Tech

#64

Post by [deleted] »

tomp wrote: post #42
robconery wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're being a tad too literal with your critique (if I may). The whole point is to take you into a realm that's utterly absurd from the male perspective -- which is entirely my point in writing this . Yes, male nurses face weird moments in life - but as you say it's mostly from other men. That has nothing to do with being a woman in the tech industry who get to listen to cracks about "being on the rag" or PMSing whe…

> You'd be surprised the shit women deal with. I'm not sure, but I think you're being too general. I'd rather state this: You'd be surprised by the shit *attractive* women have to deal with. And I 'm pretty sure that attractive men have to deal with the same kind of "shit". They just react to it differently. Edit: I expected the downvotes, but please reply, do you disagree with the stated facts (i.e. does you experie…

[deleted]

Re: Men In Tech

#65

Post by vacri »

SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #56
tomp wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When you ask men the same question [...] the answer is just about nothing. From my personal experience, men are much more vulnerable than women. A lot of my friends got assaulted/beaten up (me included) (some multiple times), and it's always been in public , either in clubs or even in broad daylight on a busy street ! As you stated above, women can protect themselves in very simple ways: stay with other people, and…

> men are much more vulnerable than women. ... For men, it's almost impossible to protect ourselves What?

I disagree with the above commenter's general points, but I believe he's picking up on the concept that violence against men is much less visible a problem. Admittedly it's generally non-sexual (until we talk about prisons, and then it's seen as a joke or a righteous part of punishment) but men are expected to shrug off violence. There's even a social stigma for men who can't defend themselves.

It's a mistake to view it as a him versus her debate anyway. It doesn't make women's public lives better or worse if men have an easier or harder time.

Re: Men In Tech

#66

Post by JoachimSchipper »

wamatt wrote: post #58
chrisguitarguy wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Essentially the author is trying to put the male readers in a women's shoes. In other words, take every sexist tech story that's popped up in tech news in the last few months and reverse the pronouns. It's certainly an interesting read, but not particularly well executed. There is a book called Egalia's Daughters [1] that does a similar thing in a much more powerful, primal way. Seriously worth a read. 1. http://www.…

Ok but why should we care? I mean it's not like men are raging about the lack of male orientated pregnancy articles. I don't get it. Tech is male orientated because there are much more males in it. It make sense to then align the reporting towards the base.

Think "you'd feel bad if this happened to you. By empathy, you should figure out that women feel bad if this happens to them."

Re: Men In Tech

#67

Post by scotty79 »

OP could make his statement much stronger if he wrote the whole piece from perspective of bit asexual straight man working in environment dominated by gay men who would introduce in daily worklife all kinds of innuendos often forgetting that protagonist is not interested in them and also not very interested in sexual layer of human interaction.

I think the innate homophoby of the readers could help them to better understand.

Re: Men In Tech

#69

Post by JanezStupar »

TheSOB88 wrote: post #57
tomp wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You'd be surprised the shit women deal with. I'm not sure, but I think you're being too general. I'd rather state this: You'd be surprised by the shit *attractive* women have to deal with. And I 'm pretty sure that attractive men have to deal with the same kind of "shit". They just react to it differently. Edit: I expected the downvotes, but please reply, do you disagree with the stated facts (i.e. does you experie…

Attractive men DON'T have to deal with the same kind of shit, in general, because they are not a minority. They are not in a minority with social precedents to keep them down, which is what this article is all about. Institutionalized sexualization of women through teasing and joking is pretty common. This piece is trying to get you to where you try to understand what it's like. Most of us have wondered if our bulge…

You are obviously not an attractive male.

I've had to put up with quite a lot from women of all kinds and I'm not even that attractive.

I'm not going to say more, since I will get called a pussy and a bitch.

But lets please stop pretending that only men are perverts and that all sexual discrimination and indecent behavior towards other people comes from men.

Re: Men In Tech

#70

Post by sycr »

robconery wrote: post #34
knowtheory wrote: post #6

Reading this is really awkward. And it's not awkward because it reveals some hidden truth, or because it's a good piece of writing that reflects on the issue it's tackling. No, instead it's awkward because the gender dynamics are not reversible. At least, not in the manner that's intended here. You can't just take the circumstances that women face in tech fields, and switch around the pronouns and have the circumstan…

You're being a tad too literal with your critique (if I may). The whole point is to take you into a realm that's utterly absurd from the male perspective -- which is entirely my point in writing this . Yes, male nurses face weird moments in life - but as you say it's mostly from other men. That has nothing to do with being a woman in the tech industry who get to listen to cracks about "being on the rag" or PMSing whe…

Rob, I think that if you re-read knowtheory's comment you may find that your reply does not address its substance - and that, in fact, you are in broad agreement.

Knowtheory cited the case of male nursing precisely because it's a dissimilar example to women in tech. His critique is that it's not enough just to swap gender roles, because we carry along all of the mental and cultural baggage associated with masculinity and femininity. When we recontextualize gender roles, we're not really understanding the contrary perspective with any depth.

Put another way, there's a difference being a man in women's shoes and being a woman in women's shoes.

Anways, thanks for taking the time to write the article - it was enjoyable to read and thought provoking. I'm always appreciate of articles that try to promote understanding instead of enforcement.

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