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A web-based Excel/database hybrid

ragic.com

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Re: A web-based Excel/database hybrid

#61

Post by andybak »

harwoodr wrote: post #49
longneckdeer wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pricing has always been a big topic of discussion inside our team. Would really like to know what kind of pricing would keep you or anyone else reading this comment interested.

Let us know when you have the absolutely free, extremely light, developer/farting around tier - that isn't a trial. I may get 2-3 days in the next 30 where I can take some serious time with it - by the time I have any traction, the trial will have ended.

That's exactly what happens to me in every single 30 day trial. I sign-up, real-life intrudes, later I remember the damn thing and find my trial has expired.

Luckily most trials are keyed on email address so it's hardly a difficult thing to get round. (shhhhhhh! don't spoil the party)

Re: A web-based Excel/database hybrid

#62

Post by Ironchefpython »

I poked around for a bit.

I want to reiterate what has already been said; this does not feel like Excel. If you spend some time watching (medium-to-low skill) people who use Excel as a general purpose tool to perform general tracking and calculation tasks, you'll see there's a very different way they work.

They start with a blank sheet, and start putting data in rows. Then they add some formulas to the rows, and do a bunch of sums on some columns. The idiom you've chosen, of dragging and dropping, is a significant workflow change.

A few more things that I haven't seen pointed out already.

Your pricing scheme should differentiate between designer and non-designer users. If I buy a personal account, it's kinda useless when I can't give my url to someone and tell them to create a new entry and edit data.

Also regarding users, the lack of OpenID integration seems an obvious lack. Creating an account just to enter some data is a pretty high bar. Ideally, I should be able to share a form via email, implicitly granting data entry permissions to the recipient, then they can click the link in the email and be prompted to use their email provider's OpenID to authenticate.

Anyway, you've got some good ideas here, but I don't think you've got the right focus on Excel/Access users quite yet. It lacks the feel of Excel, and lacks the features of Access.

Re: A web-based Excel/database hybrid

#64

Post by longneckdeer »

changtimwu wrote: post #63

Nice idea. I haven't tried it yet. When I see the word "Excel/database", I image it's a system that can import existed excel files and generates an runnable CRUD app instantly. Does Ragic archive this?

Yes, using the import Excel wizard we can do that.

Re: A web-based Excel/database hybrid

#65

Post by longneckdeer »

Ironchefpython wrote: post #62

I poked around for a bit. I want to reiterate what has already been said; this does not feel like Excel. If you spend some time watching (medium-to-low skill) people who use Excel as a general purpose tool to perform general tracking and calculation tasks, you'll see there's a very different way they work. They start with a blank sheet, and start putting data in rows. Then they add some formulas to the rows, and do a…

The idea is like this:

If the user already have data on an Excel, we provide an import wizard so that they can import their Excel and create a database with it.

If the user does not have existing data from Excel, they can first define the data fields on Ragic using the design mode. They can actually create cells as fields just like they would on a spreadsheet, but a lot of users find it hard to catch on so we added the drag and drop model just recently. So both ways should work okay.

And actually we do support OpenID log in, and the ability to click on an URL in e-mail to grant access to some DB entries. I guess we have to work on making these features more obvious to users.

Thanks for the feedback!

Re: A web-based Excel/database hybrid

#66

Post by gruseom »

wilgertict wrote: post #60
redtexture wrote: post #45

Essentially, your pricing indicates that you offer only the crippled version of the application unless the individual or small group obtains the $199.99 per month account. The pricing and usage limitations on forms for "personal" (one user / 10 forms / $19.95/month) and "lite" (20 users, 10 Forms, $99.99/month) indicate that you don't understand that full collaboration for both large and small entities is where you w…

What redtexture says: all my clients would need the $199/month package because they are collaborating with multiple people (otherwis they could be using Excel with a lot less trouble). But for $2400 a year it's not that much of a cost saving anymore. Please offer "more reasonable" pricing plans.

they are collaborating with multiple people (otherwise they could be using Excel with a lot less trouble).

What's insufficient about Google Docs for that? i.e. a spreadsheet that supports collaborative use.

Re: A web-based Excel/database hybrid

#67

Post by mgkimsal »

gruseom wrote: post #54
tatsuke95 wrote: post #50

There are two markets: 1. The programmers, utilizing an Excel+SQL setup for users in an IT setting. 2. The business users who use Excel for more than they should be, or use it in a place a DB would be far more efficient. Like another poster said, the former probably aren't going to find anything above and beyond what they can't already accomplish with a DB and Excel. The latter, on the other hand, are a huge market a…

Why do you want "an Excel/DB setup"? In what ways is Excel not enough? You mention that a DB would be far more efficient. What kind of efficiency do you have in mind?

Excel encourages visual data layout, and I almost always see people putting way too much information in one row that would better be split off in to a related table. The only viable thing to do there is 'sheets' in Excel, but then people generally can't see the data at the same time, without even more funky queries

Being able to automatically recognize patterns in data which would be suitable for normalization techniques, then managing those techniques behind the scenes, would allow for people using a GUI for data entry, but would open up the possibility for more flexible/powerful/efficient SQL when needed.

Re: A web-based Excel/database hybrid

#68

Post by mgkimsal »

sardonicbryan wrote: post #42
debacle wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He could readily target the market of people who use Excel for things they shouldn't be doing, because they don't know how to encorporate SQL+Workbench, and don't have the time to learn.

Yea, it seems like this is a pretty market position if you ask me -- if you need DB like tools, why not just use a DB? This product would have to be an order of magnitude easier to set up and use to get people to use that instead, IMO. Could be wrong though -- would be great if something like this could improve the data/analytical literacy of the general population.

"if you need DB like tools, why not just use a DB"

A) people don't really know they need db-like tools. B) even if they did, setting up a database to have even a portion of the "up and running" aspect of Excel is extremely time consuming.

The closest I've seen is some companies that get advanced enough set up a database engine somewhere, then set up Excel to connect to it as a datasource (ODBC or whatever). This still requires them to understand how to set up a database, secure it, and model table structures around their data, which is asking quite a lot from someone who really just wants to create a few short forms to collect data.

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