Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

A web-based Excel/database hybrid

ragic.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 68 posts

Re: A web-based Excel/database hybrid

#31

Post by longneckdeer »

bergerj wrote: post #27
andybak wrote: post #25

Anyone else stop reading after seeing the lowest tier was $19.95/month? Maybe I'm just a cheapskate...

I didn't stop reading, but it feels like too high (for lowest tier). I think there should at least be a FREE tier which allows 1 or 2 forms. Once someone sees the value, they'll jump for more. I understand that textual data is light, but 250MB seems quite low given current costs of hard drive storage. Why the user limit too? Your costs seem to be in data transfer/storage.

The user limit is to segment large user sites from small user sites. We assume larger users sites have more budget.

But we seem to need a cheaper plan designed for developers and geeks so that they can play around Ragic with minimal investment.

Re: A web-based Excel/database hybrid

#32

Post by debacle »

sardonicbryan wrote: post #15

Just some hopefully constructive feedback here: for Excel power users, you're not just competing with Excel, you're competing with Excel+ODBC+SQL+Workbench which is basically an Excel/DB hybrid, just not web based. I read your "how this is different than a spreadsheet" blog, and none of the examples struck me as compelling, even though I use my Excel/SQL toolchain every day. Given how strong the ecosystems are around…

He could readily target the market of people who use Excel for things they shouldn't be doing, because they don't know how to encorporate SQL+Workbench, and don't have the time to learn.

Re: A web-based Excel/database hybrid

#33

Post by specialist »

Idea #22 is a web version (realization) of Lotus Improv. He's old enough that he should know better.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_Improv

I've been waiting ages for this. Desktop, web-based, tablets, however.

Old timers may recall that Lotus Symphony had both database and spreadsheet features, like a multi-app. It was cool. At the time, Lotus Improv seemed like a healthy fusion, next logical step, minimum viable product.

Improv was victim of the Innovators Dilemma plus installed base inertia. I remain impressed that even with their market dominance, Lotus was experimenting, releasing crazy new products, and willing to eat their own children. (Though I can't forgive Lotus Notes, sorry.)

PG's original blurb (http://ycombinator.com/ideas.html):

"22. A web-based Excel/database hybrid. People often use Excel as a lightweight database. I suspect there's an opportunity to create the program such users wish existed, and that there are new things you could do if it were web-based. Like make it easier to get data into it, through forms or scraping.

Don't make it feel like a database. That frightens people. The question to ask is: how much can I let people do without defining structure? You want the database equivalent of a language that makes its easy to keep data in linked lists. (Which means you probably want to write it in one.)"

Re: A web-based Excel/database hybrid

#34

Post by shill »

viraptor wrote: post #24
longneckdeer wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kind of curious what kind of trouble that you ran into when using Quickbase. You can e-mail me if you don't feel like posting it here. (jeff@ragic.com)

I'm not good at describing the UX parts, but every time I deal with it seems painful. I can't easily get to what I need, update notifications don't work the way I expect (you need to manually mark stuff as viewed), creating custom tables can be blocked by project owners (I understand not editing the shared ones, but if I want to create my own report, I don't see a reason to disable that). I can't point out many big i…

I like QuickBase for prototyping and departmental applications but it does have it's idiosyncrasies. Unfortunately, I don't get to use it much anymore because I am bootstrapping a startup and it is too expensive (not free enough) for us. If we start scaling I will use QuickBase to automate as much as possible.

I have a working DBAPI compliant Python module that is about 40% complete. It really needs a method to translate SQL to QuickBase's clunky xml query format. The Ruby API has one and it would be trivial to port it to Python.

Would you (or anyone else?) be interested in contributing if I put it up on GitHub?

Re: A web-based Excel/database hybrid

#35

Post by danso »

longneckdeer wrote: post #6
citricsquid wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is the name pronounced? "Rage-ick" or "Rag-ick"?

Rag-ick It's suppose to be Rapid + Magic

If it's not too late, I think you should consider a name revamp. I get that you want to convey the speed and power/ease/fluidity of your application, but the truncation + concatenation of those two words ends up not bringing either of those words to mind. I don't blame you if English is not your first language; but this is a case where the combo does not work because you've combined two unrecognizable parts of two words to create a third unrecognizable word.

As someone said earlier, people are much more likely to think of "tragic." Actually, I think they'll think of "rage", which is an emotion that you most definitely do not want associated with your software.

Given that you aren't even getting the connotation of "rapid"/"magic", you're better off using an arbitrary word.

For Arrested Development fans, think of the combo-profession of "Analyst" + "Therapist".

Re: A web-based Excel/database hybrid

#36

Post by mattmanser »

This isn't what you think it is. It's definitely not an excel competitor. It feels like a cross between an Access and a Salesforce competitor.

It looks like you're close to making a good product. But you're at 90%.

Basically I tried creating a little app and it's very painful. I don't believe you've sat with a user and watched them try to create an app without you intervening and giving guidance.

So sit down with some real users and watch them try to use it. Your front page claims install>customize>import. It doesn't work like that at all. It was confusing. For example the upload excel img looks like it's a button. It's not. When I did manage to create an app I first tried editing the cells directly, but they're not cells like excel. Eventually I realized I had to add a textbox, which was also confusing as the width kept changing and I couldn't stop it. At about this point I gave up. Then got hit with multiple alerts when I tried to close the pages.

Then tried to save it.

The most confusing save mechanism I've ever come across.

Tried to just close the page again. Multiple warnings again.

Argh.

And calm. I'm in the process of stopping smoking so my temper is a little, hmm, Hulkish.

I decided to try again while writing this using the import excel function. It didn't work from the front page at all as you had to already have a project (why?). When I tried to do it via the upload the open file dialog never opened. I gave up again.

Also find someone who knows something about sales and marketing. There's not even a CTA button on the homepage to signup. The copy is terrible. You've made the mistake of going typical corporate million page website which doesn't actually tell me anything at all. The order of the home page is all wrong (you should not be leading with the app concept which doesn't actually seem to be in the product). You're making the mistake of selling features, not benefits.

I'd personally spend a little more time so the sales website didn't look like bootstrap (the irony being you don't even seem to be using bootstrap).

As I said, good, but no cigar yet.

Re: A web-based Excel/database hybrid

#37

Post by viraptor »

shill wrote: post #34
viraptor wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not good at describing the UX parts, but every time I deal with it seems painful. I can't easily get to what I need, update notifications don't work the way I expect (you need to manually mark stuff as viewed), creating custom tables can be blocked by project owners (I understand not editing the shared ones, but if I want to create my own report, I don't see a reason to disable that). I can't point out many big i…

I like QuickBase for prototyping and departmental applications but it does have it's idiosyncrasies. Unfortunately, I don't get to use it much anymore because I am bootstrapping a startup and it is too expensive (not free enough) for us. If we start scaling I will use QuickBase to automate as much as possible. I have a working DBAPI compliant Python module that is about 40% complete. It really needs a method to trans…

Not sure how much I can contribute, but I'd definitely appreciate it if you ever do publish it.

Re: A web-based Excel/database hybrid

#38

Post by longneckdeer »

mattmanser wrote: post #36

This isn't what you think it is. It's definitely not an excel competitor. It feels like a cross between an Access and a Salesforce competitor. It looks like you're close to making a good product. But you're at 90%. Basically I tried creating a little app and it's very painful. I don't believe you've sat with a user and watched them try to create an app without you intervening and giving guidance. So sit down with som…

Thanks, very useful comment, and I apologize for the confusion that you experienced.

Right now most of the Ragic developers first go through 2 hours of training before they start building. So they kind of know what the basics process are.

We are in the transition process trying to move from a tool that we personally teach developers how to use, to a self help type of product that developers can start by themselves. Functions like drag and drop add fields are added just this month.

I will certainly find a group of users, sit by them one by one to make our learning process a lot smoother. Again, sorry for the confusion. I think I will certainly post again after we tune the process. The HN posting feedback is really helpful.

Re: A web-based Excel/database hybrid

#39

Post by mattmanser »

longneckdeer wrote: post #38
mattmanser wrote: post #36

This isn't what you think it is. It's definitely not an excel competitor. It feels like a cross between an Access and a Salesforce competitor. It looks like you're close to making a good product. But you're at 90%. Basically I tried creating a little app and it's very painful. I don't believe you've sat with a user and watched them try to create an app without you intervening and giving guidance. So sit down with som…

Thanks, very useful comment, and I apologize for the confusion that you experienced. Right now most of the Ragic developers first go through 2 hours of training before they start building. So they kind of know what the basics process are. We are in the transition process trying to move from a tool that we personally teach developers how to use, to a self help type of product that developers can start by themselves. F…

I'm curious how many of you there are? As you should try getting funding if there's only a couple of you and you're attempting to bootstrap, get a good UX guy and really try to hit the ball out the park.

There's definitely a market for something like this and personally I think Salesforce is a overcharging by a lot and the field is ripe.

Ignore the thing about the guy moaning about $19.95 p/m.

Re: A web-based Excel/database hybrid

#40

Post by longneckdeer »

mattmanser wrote: post #36

This isn't what you think it is. It's definitely not an excel competitor. It feels like a cross between an Access and a Salesforce competitor. It looks like you're close to making a good product. But you're at 90%. Basically I tried creating a little app and it's very painful. I don't believe you've sat with a user and watched them try to create an app without you intervening and giving guidance. So sit down with som…

There are 4 of us, and some of us are doing projects using Ragic so that we have the money to survive. We are currently self-funded.
Post reply on HN