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"That's Why You Don't Have Any Friends."

joethepeacock.blogspot.co.uk

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Re: "That's Why You Don't Have Any Friends."

#61

Post by windsurfer »

tedkalaw wrote: post #30
windsurfer wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I went to Bell High school in Canada as a gifted student, and I can say that I never experienced any kind of bullying - and I was very weird. Everyone was weird. It was great, and very much not like elementary school.

Is that a magnet school? I went to a magnet school and my experience was pretty good. Sure, there were "jocks" - but their "power" is vastly diminished in a school where kids are sad if they don't get A's. As you said, it's like minded people being in the same place. Unfortunately, not everyone has access to a school like that.

I am not sure what a magnet school is but it was funded by the public school board and still accepted regular students. If you wanted to go and were outside its normal jurisdiction, you had to have an IQ above a certain percentile.

Re: "That's Why You Don't Have Any Friends."

#63

Post by anotherthrow »

unalone wrote: post #43
anotherthrow wrote: post #40

The sentiment of the article is great, but a lot of it just doesn't quite ring true. When the auther starts going on about other people being losers, and him being a winner, because they do things he doesn't personally value, you start to wonder if he is really free from defining himself in contrast to the guys who excluded him years ago. Life isn't a competition like that. There's a classic transformation you see a…

It might come through a little, but there's a difference between comparing yourself perpetually to the people who used to torture you, and feeling sympathetic to a 14-year-old kid who's being tortured now because you remember what it was like to be his age. It's not too bad to remember that things used to suck, and that they're better now. Plus, I don't know a thing about this guy, but he sounds like like a cool dude…

I know, but on a (probably unfairly) uncharitable reading his advice is 'don't worry, that girl who didn't want to kiss you is a loser, and so are the people who don't want to hang out with you'. It might be comforting, but I don't think it's healthy or true attitude to take.

Re: "That's Why You Don't Have Any Friends."

#64

Post by evincarofautumn »

54mf wrote: post #37
StavrosK wrote: post #25

By the way, what's with the "even the furry had more friends than me" bigotry? Would "even the gay had more friends than me" fly?

Considering the fact that he speaks fondly of him outside of that line, I assumed he was being facetious and playing off the common social view of furries as loner weirdos. Not that that makes it okay, but I don't think it was meant to be harmful.

I chalk it up to the fact that what’s perfectly normal within a group of friends can seem harsh from the outside. He’s probably just accustomed to making jokes like that with Jay, so sees no issue putting it on his blog.

Re: "That's Why You Don't Have Any Friends."

#65

Post by chimpinee »

jenius wrote: post #17
aculver wrote: post #7

The author's observation about high school is exactly why my kids, by default, will be home schooled. If they decide they want to go to public or private school at some point, I'll let them. Unlike a lot of kids that end up getting bullied, they'll know that their attendance is completely optional. I'm not looking to shelter them from the real world, only the fake miniature society that exists at school.

While I understand your point of view based on this one observation, I think this is a terrible idea if you look at the big picture. Whether they get bullied or not, high school is an extremely important time for kids to gain social skills and learn how to deal with people. Dealing with people is one of the most important skills you can have, period. And that often means dealing with people that are being dicks, and…

>gain social skills and learn how to deal with people

Learning to get on with people is important but school isn't such a good place to do that.

The social atmosphere in schools is abysmal. A combination of obedience to authority and placating bullies. It's more like being in the army, or in prison, than a modern workplace or a group of friends. At least in a group of friends you can talk freely, without needing permission or being teased.

I think one learns more subtle and useful social skills from interacting with friends (i.e. voluntary relationships, where either party is free to leave) and from interacting with colleagues.

In my case, this occurred in the years just after school.

I won't say that school doesn't teach a certain amount of valuable knowledge, but that knowledge can be obtained elsewhere, without the huge overhead of learning to share space with bullies, thugs, and people in authority who think they know what is best for you.

And I haven't mentioned the enormous cost of schooling: 12 years of your young life (instead of doing more enjoyable things that you stand to learn far more from). And for most people, stunting of individuality and destruction of creativity (which cripples the ability to learn new things later in life).

I think most people just assume that schools are good places to learn social skills because they were forced to go through it themselves, so they had to embrace it at the time. After a while, they look back with nostalgia, forgetting how much boredom and fear they had to endure.

Re: "That's Why You Don't Have Any Friends."

#66

Post by StavrosK »

54mf wrote: post #37
StavrosK wrote: post #25

By the way, what's with the "even the furry had more friends than me" bigotry? Would "even the gay had more friends than me" fly?

Considering the fact that he speaks fondly of him outside of that line, I assumed he was being facetious and playing off the common social view of furries as loner weirdos. Not that that makes it okay, but I don't think it was meant to be harmful.

Yeah, that's an interpretation I can accept. I'm not sure it was meant that way, but it might (the part about "he was my friend" makes me unsure).

Re: "That's Why You Don't Have Any Friends."

#67

Post by methoddk »

StavrosK wrote: post #66
54mf wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering the fact that he speaks fondly of him outside of that line, I assumed he was being facetious and playing off the common social view of furries as loner weirdos. Not that that makes it okay, but I don't think it was meant to be harmful.

Yeah, that's an interpretation I can accept. I'm not sure it was meant that way, but it might (the part about "he was my friend" makes me unsure).

The author goes on to explain how he messed up their friendship. So even if they aren't friends, I can't see that being anything else but a joke.

Re: "That's Why You Don't Have Any Friends."

#68

Post by DanielBMarkham »

I'm about as asocial and celebratory of diversity as they come, and I love this essay, especially the conversational style. But I'd be careful not to take this argument too far into sophistry.

In school people clan and desperately look for some identity to copy. This leads to all the terrible social behavior you see in most secondary and high school in the U.S. Somebody calling you "weird" can really be a badge of honor.

But there's nothing to be gained in being different in itself. While you should be who you are, if you only define yourself in how weird you are compared to others you're doing the same thing, only in reverse. Instead of saying "I will look at my peers and copy them" you're saying "I will look at my peers and do the opposite" Both of these are just the same kind of herd thinking. Being weird? Awesome. Being deliberately different? Not so much. You need to do a gut check on this one. Schools are full of a bunch of people who all are very proud of being different, just like everybody else.

I also note that the gym conversation consisted of people comparing social preferences: sports teams, hollywood stars, and so on. These kinds of conversations form a type of social bonding -- a joining of group opinion (even if outliers are allowed). It's this very banter that creates the group identity that then shuns other people for being "weird".

People are some funny animals.

Re: "That's Why You Don't Have Any Friends."

#69

Post by akmiller »

It's definitely an inspirational story in a way...but lets not be quick to call the other kids "losers".

We must remember that they are all kids just trying to find their way. Some kids find their way by trying their best to fit in while others might be like the kid in this story.

You can build this kid up while not tearing the others down. Even the kids who are popular and mean, like the girl he mentions in the story, may at an older age find some of the things they did in school reprehensible. Lets not condemn them while they are still young and immature.

Re: "That's Why You Don't Have Any Friends."

#70

Post by tomjen3 »

jwingy wrote: post #9

Awesome. On a side note, I wonder why this culture of popularity has to be the default in our schools?

Basically because they have to organize some form of hierarchy and if there is no shared goal they will organize it around popularity (PG made this observation back in one of his earlier essays)

I am betting that if they end up on a primitive island they would organize with special respect for those who where the best trackers/hunters.

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