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Software Engineers Will Work One Day For English Majors

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Re: Software Engineers Will Work One Day For English Majors

#61
post #24

There's a persistent myth that needs to be put down: It doesn't get at all harder to learn new technologies when you get older. In fact, it gets a whole lot easier. There's an old saying "You can't teach an old dog new tricks", and this is true, to the extent that any cliche can be, when referring to people becoming set in their ways. For many professions, where the technology doesn't' change, this is true. For progr…

I'm 31, and I have coworkers in their late 30s and early 40s, working in a large multinational with legacy systems. The truth is, while it doesn't get that much mentally harder to learn new technologies, it is very hard psychologically. For someone used to a large paycheck, to being the go-to guy in the technology and set in their 9-to-5 ways, to get out of their comfort zone, and admit that what they know is no long…

I'm 36, and you sound exactly like me when I was 31. Same situation, surrounded by a team who was on average 10 years older than myself married with children, working on mostly legacy stuff. Nobody seemed to really care much about their jobs, just wallowing in skill rot. When I was 32/33 or so I was offered to go into management.

I turned down that management offer, kicked butt where I could and got promoted to a principal engineer. It was at that point I realized I was in a dead end job, went nuts in my free time reading book after book, tutorial after tutorial... and two years later finally summoned the courage to do a Rails project pro-bono on the side for a small local marketing firm; for about 4 mos I was putting in 60-70 hour weeks between my day job and side gig.

Now I have another Rails project lined up for a NYC fashion site that pays about 15% more per hour than my day job and I've been contacted for no less than 5 full time Rails positions, one of which I interviewed for and turned down. The demand for this stack is fierce. And you know what? I'm madly head-over-heels in love with the latest and greatest the web has to offer (ie. meteor.js gives me goosebumps, and at the very least in the near term I want to do a front-end mvc project ala backbone). I'm not great - yet - but I feel like for once I'm really in the game. It's exhilarating. I feel more alive than I have since my early 20s. This NYC contract is about to be signed, and once that happens I'll be saying goodbye to the windows world altogether, join a co-working space, build a network, go to local tech meetups, etc, to ensure I have a steady stream of work. It also helps to have at least 6 mos of savings in the bank to mitigate risk.

Seriously, go thru easy/free books like Learn Python the Hard Way, Eloquent Javascript, Michael Hart's Ruby on Rails Tutorial, the tutorials on the W3C site. You should be able to do all that in a couple months, and that's probably 50% of the battle (okay - there's alot more, but once you have some foundation the rest will be much easier).

EDIT: Wanted to mention about the full time Rails positions, 3 were for small startups, 2 for larger companies. Naturally the small startups you can expect to take a pay cut if you're mostly maxxed out in your compensation in your respective area. But the 2 corporate Rails gigs the recruiters wanted to put me in at or slightly above my total compensation package at my current job (partly due to those being a mixed environment and needing someone with both C#/C++ and Rails skills).

Re: Software Engineers Will Work One Day For English Majors

#62

Max career length depends on how the young engineer sets himself up. Early in your career you want to bootstrap yourself with some hot new technology to get your foot in the door. Once you are about 3-4 years in, you need to switch gears and focus on learning the things that change slowly. Such as: 1. How to work with people (technical/non-technical) 2. More about math and general concepts of your craft, not just new…

Yes, I can imagine far more people wanting to hire Mark Zuckerberg than Richard Stallman.

Re: Software Engineers Will Work One Day For English Majors

#63
post #14
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not the youngster who are jobless is the older software engineers who never learned to learn new concepts. The older programmer to so much time to learn everything from algorithms , to cryptography, and things that are analytical they forget about learning new technologies. Yoru comment shows why older people have difficult getting jobs. It took you a day to understand how a listview work while a good young prog…

> Yoru comment shows why older people have difficult getting jobs. You make several assumptions about him that don't seem supported, but worse why make this personal? > It took you a day to understand how a listview work while a good young programmer who understand technologies should be able to pick up any technology and understand it in a few weeks. So, older people don't get jobs because it takes them a day to pic…

I think he meant it only takes them a "few weeks" to understand a whole technology (e.g the entire Android API rather than the listview).

I think part of the reason you can feel like you are learning faster when you are younger is because you look at everything enthusiastically and hammer through your education seeking out the juicy good bits of a technology and kind of glossing over everything else.

As I get older I find myself evaluating things much more slowly and cynically, checking under every rock for things that can bite me in the ass.

Re: Software Engineers Will Work One Day For English Majors

#64
There's plenty to take offense to in this article, but perhaps it would be wise to take one implication to heart: as you progress, don't forget to improve your soft skills just as you improve your technical skills. Whatever you make of this, it would be folly to argue with the assertion that managing other people requires strong communication skills.

Re: Software Engineers Will Work One Day For English Majors

#65
post #7
post #4

Statistics show that most software developers are out of the field by age 40. If this is really true then where do they all go? There's only so many seats for managers and architects.

How many 40 year old software programmers could there be the area of science has only been around 40 years.

If you are 40 today, its reasonable to expect that you graduated college in 1994. That's 32 years after Purdue University opened the first computer science program in 1962.

Re: Software Engineers Will Work One Day For English Majors

#66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm 31, and I have coworkers in their late 30s and early 40s, working in a large multinational with legacy systems. The truth is, while it doesn't get that much mentally harder to learn new technologies, it is very hard psychologically. For someone used to a large paycheck, to being the go-to guy in the technology and set in their 9-to-5 ways, to get out of their comfort zone, and admit that what they know is no long…

I'm 36, and you sound exactly like me when I was 31. Same situation, surrounded by a team who was on average 10 years older than myself married with children, working on mostly legacy stuff. Nobody seemed to really care much about their jobs, just wallowing in skill rot. When I was 32/33 or so I was offered to go into management. I turned down that management offer, kicked butt where I could and got promoted to a pri…

Be careful.

"Now I have another Rails project lined up for a NYC fashion site that pays about 15% more per hour than my day job"

Contracting is vastly different than being an employee. Your employer pays considerably more than 15% more per hour for you (employer portion of taxes, portion of health insurance , etc.) As a contractor you'll be responsible for those expenses.

Re: Software Engineers Will Work One Day For English Majors

#68

The article states: "A large technology company might typically pay new law-school graduates and MBAs salaries and compensation approaching double what they give new master’s degree grads in computer science. " But, from what I've read, those high-paying law school jobs are very few, only for the elite of the elite, and requires the new employee to work insane hours. Same for those MBAs. I'm pretty sure that, on aver…

He also mentions that programmers are supposed to move up the ladder, and there are fewer upper management jobs. So obviously there's going to be unemployment for those programmers who don't get the rare slots - but that also implies that getting an English degree becomes more of a lottery ticket than a CS degree.

Do you win the upper management job and continue increasing your income over your entire career? Or do you work at McDonalds? Perhaps you'd rather be a programmer where you aren't assuming so much risk...

Re: Software Engineers Will Work One Day For English Majors

#69
post #8

He seems to have missed making the point in the title. Why would software engineers work for english majors? He thinks that a 20 something english major is a better manager for a software engineer than a 40 something software engineer? Plus he seems to completely miss a separate alternative for software engineers over 35-- start their own businesses. I think the perception that 40 year olds are not up to date on tech…

Me, at 20 years old: "Man, young people are so much quicker and smarter than older people." Me, at 40 years old: "Just wait. You'll see."

I always loved the Mark Twain quote "When I was a boy of fourteen, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be twenty-one, I was astonished at how much the old man had learned in seven years."

http://www.toinspire.com/author.asp?author=Mark+Twain

Re: Software Engineers Will Work One Day For English Majors

#70
post #24

There's a persistent myth that needs to be put down: It doesn't get at all harder to learn new technologies when you get older. In fact, it gets a whole lot easier. There's an old saying "You can't teach an old dog new tricks", and this is true, to the extent that any cliche can be, when referring to people becoming set in their ways. For many professions, where the technology doesn't' change, this is true. For progr…

I'm 31, and I have coworkers in their late 30s and early 40s, working in a large multinational with legacy systems. The truth is, while it doesn't get that much mentally harder to learn new technologies, it is very hard psychologically. For someone used to a large paycheck, to being the go-to guy in the technology and set in their 9-to-5 ways, to get out of their comfort zone, and admit that what they know is no long…

I think you may be seeing a bit of a confirmation bias. Naturally with any group of people who stick it out in one company for a long time you are going to see "lifers". These people are complacent in there careers. They know they aren't getting fired and they are happy not going anywhere. As a result these people are not naturally life long learners either.

I wouldn't use 40 something developers in a large multinational as a representative sample. As the saying go, it's easy to retain average people, it's the exceptional people it's hard to keep around for long.

Also you mentioned .NET, the .NET ecosystem and culture is notoriously corporate, and not very innovative or leading edge, again that's not to say all of .NET is like that, but a large multinational is likely to fit that model pretty well.

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