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Gmail, Yahoo announce new 2024 authentication requirements for bulk senders

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Re: Gmail, Yahoo announce new 2024 authentication requirements for bulk senders

#61

Post by EvanAnderson »

local_crmdgeon wrote: post #57
EvanAnderson wrote: post #34

Hijacking the thread: I do some "bulk" sending for a 501(c)3 I volunteer for. I include unsubscribe links that go to a form with a submit button (because I want the unsubscribe to be a POST request). Each link has a random opaque identifier in the query string. Something like: hxxp://example.com/unsubscribe?id=abcd1234 A couple years ago I noticed that MSFT IPs hitting my unsubscribe links with invalid identifiers on…

You may not have to comply with CAN SPAM legally, but I absolutely hate when orgs do this. Please try to make the world a better place instead of doing the legal minimum.

What else should I do? The list is double opt-in, every message includes a one-click unsubscribe link, full contact info for the organization is included, and I send text-only.

Re: Gmail, Yahoo announce new 2024 authentication requirements for bulk senders

#62

Post by albertgoeswoof »

pirsquare wrote: post #51
albertgoeswoof wrote: post #26

This might be good news, but as it comes from Google and involves email centralisation, I’m sceptical. At MailPace we already enforce DKIM, it’s pretty basic stuff. But list-unsubscribe is optional for our senders. We can make this a requirement and manage lists for senders who don’t / can’t implement a webhook to handle it (we already default to blocking resends to emails that hard bounce). However I am curious how…

Why would you allow users to unsub from transactional emails?

Because (according to this announcement) if you don't, Google will put you in the spam folder.

Edit: I suppose it does say "unsubscribe from commercial email in one click". But it's hard to say exactly what they mean. They also don't define Bulk Senders - is that the domain or the sending SMTP server?

Re: Gmail, Yahoo announce new 2024 authentication requirements for bulk senders

#63

Post by rbut »

pirsquare wrote: post #51
albertgoeswoof wrote: post #26

This might be good news, but as it comes from Google and involves email centralisation, I’m sceptical. At MailPace we already enforce DKIM, it’s pretty basic stuff. But list-unsubscribe is optional for our senders. We can make this a requirement and manage lists for senders who don’t / can’t implement a webhook to handle it (we already default to blocking resends to emails that hard bounce). However I am curious how…

Why would you allow users to unsub from transactional emails?

I'm having the same thoughts.

On one of my SaaS apps workers receive details on their shifts via email. If I allow them to one-click unsubscribe, I know there will be many who do so accidentally, with no idea how to resubscribe.

Currently they need to sign in and manage their contact methods in settings (email, SMS, etc). Thus they know how to re-enable it if they disable it.

I can see many support requests from managers saying "X worker isn't getting emails". Sigh.

Re: Gmail, Yahoo announce new 2024 authentication requirements for bulk senders

#64

Post by michaelmior »

albertgoeswoof wrote: post #26

This might be good news, but as it comes from Google and involves email centralisation, I’m sceptical. At MailPace we already enforce DKIM, it’s pretty basic stuff. But list-unsubscribe is optional for our senders. We can make this a requirement and manage lists for senders who don’t / can’t implement a webhook to handle it (we already default to blocking resends to emails that hard bounce). However I am curious how…

> Just because the header is set, it doesn’t mean it’ll do anything.

True, but I think when you're processing the volume of email that Gmail is, you'll have enough data to be able to infer whether the unsubscription was processed.

Re: Gmail, Yahoo announce new 2024 authentication requirements for bulk senders

#65

Post by martin_a »

solardev wrote: post #41
muppetman wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"open models/blacklists don't come anywhere close to Gmail's capabilities" I disagree with you. I use Postfix with rspamd plugged into it for my personal email account. I get way more spam to my gmail than I do to my personal account, and I sign up to everything with my personal account. rspam also dkim signs my emails when I send them etc, verifies SPF/DKIM/DMARC on recipet etc. Now to counter that - I am a TINY mai…

FWIW, this would make a great blog post (or Show HN) with details! "I run my own mail server and get better spam results than Gmail"

I think that's pretty standard for everybody who runs its own mail server (like "shared webhosting"-running even). Owning your mail should also be standard for everybody in tech, you don't want to rely on Google for something that important.

Re: Gmail, Yahoo announce new 2024 authentication requirements for bulk senders

#67

Post by toomuchtodo »

rbut wrote: post #63
pirsquare wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you allow users to unsub from transactional emails?

I'm having the same thoughts. On one of my SaaS apps workers receive details on their shifts via email. If I allow them to one-click unsubscribe, I know there will be many who do so accidentally, with no idea how to resubscribe. Currently they need to sign in and manage their contact methods in settings (email, SMS, etc). Thus they know how to re-enable it if they disable it. I can see many support requests from mana…

I suppose the best you can do is indicate how to re-subscribe in the unsubscribe confirmation email and say, “you should save this email! Here are alternate channels to receive your schedule if needed.”

Perhaps you could notify the manager when a user unsubscribes? Puts the ball in their court to notify the user (their employee) they aren’t going to get critical emails. Make sure any unsubscribes show up in a log available to your customer.

Re: Gmail, Yahoo announce new 2024 authentication requirements for bulk senders

#68

Post by xnx »

overstay8930 wrote: post #17

Doesn't matter to me, if an email doesn't have a one click unsubscribe I just mark it as spam. Messes with their email reputation so they hopefully get kicked off of reputable email services.

"!" key shortcut to mark as spam in Gmail web interface. I use it all the time. If I didn't expect and don't want the email you sent, then it is spam, regardless of what fine print I clicked through unknowingly at some point.

Would love for an "Unsubscribe Sunday" unofficial holiday to catch on to the same degree as "Cyber Monday".

Re: Gmail, Yahoo announce new 2024 authentication requirements for bulk senders

#69

Post by AnthonyMouse »

theglenn88_ wrote: post #36
jedberg wrote: post #32

It's not clear to me how this is any different than before? Most of my spam that I actually see already has all those things (valid DKIM, one-click unsubscribe link, and a rate limit per sender). If you really want to fix email spam, create a micro-payments system. One cent for every email you send, the user has two options after they open the email: mark it as spam and keep the penny, mark it as legit and give the p…

If I had a penny for every legitimate email I marked as spam, I’d be a billionaire. Jokes aside, why wouldn’t you just farm pennies by marking all emails as spam? You could say, “well you could detect people that abuse the system” - and now the mouse is chasing the cat.

The flaw is in giving the penny to the user instead of the email provider. If an email provider is claiming everything you send them is spam, you stop sending to them, which for a real email provider is a problem if you're sending non-spam email their customers actually want.

Re: Gmail, Yahoo announce new 2024 authentication requirements for bulk senders

#70

Post by TylerE »

pirsquare wrote: post #51
albertgoeswoof wrote: post #26

This might be good news, but as it comes from Google and involves email centralisation, I’m sceptical. At MailPace we already enforce DKIM, it’s pretty basic stuff. But list-unsubscribe is optional for our senders. We can make this a requirement and manage lists for senders who don’t / can’t implement a webhook to handle it (we already default to blocking resends to emails that hard bounce). However I am curious how…

Why would you allow users to unsub from transactional emails?

The problem comes, as I know very well, is that when you have a common sounding email, all kinds of people use it for all kinds of things. I get dozens of transactional emails a week from stores multiple states away.

A big part of why I’m stuck on/with gmail is that filtering redirects about 90% of those to spam.

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