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EE is working with Qualcomm to add Wi-Fi 7 to consumer broadband hubs

theregister.com

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Re: EE is working with Qualcomm to add Wi-Fi 7 to consumer broadband hubs

#61

Post by throw0101c »

js8 wrote: post #47
throw0101c wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Internet is designed for whatever we decide to design it for. The fact that most use cases are currently download-heavy does not mean other types of application could not be created if more bandwidth was available for upload. If you told people about streaming >1080p video folks with 9600bps modems back in the day would have thought you were nuts. Certainly there's probably a point of diminishing returns, but why…

> The fact that most use cases are currently download-heavy Is it still true? I am happy with whatever I got but I thought a big consumer use case is multiplayer gaming, which requires low latency bidirectionally.

I think ten minutes of 4K video probably uses more bandwidth than a multi-hour gaming session: game coders are probably very efficient about what they send over the wire.

Re: EE is working with Qualcomm to add Wi-Fi 7 to consumer broadband hubs

#62

Post by snuxoll »

Daviey wrote: post #7
gandalfian wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless you eccentrically expect to use your telephone line to make telephone calls. In which case you are rather tied to their router to power their propietary VoIP landline service.

Emotive language such as "eccentrically" is strange considering the decline in landline subscribers, and even less usage of an actual landline. If you want to have a functioning "landline", why would you choose to use one bundled with your internet provider compared to a much more competitive independent voip provider? This is a good summary of the decline: https://www.wrappz.com/blog/decline-of-the-landline/

> If you want to have a functioning "landline", why would you choose to use one bundled with your internet provider compared to a much more competitive independent voip provider?

So much this. Even the local Cable co. charges more for residential home phone than competitors like Ooma do, and of course if I wanted to go the whole way with deploying small SIP PBX in my house I could do it for less than a couple bucks a month getting a DID from Flowroute.

I guess getting it bundled by your triple-play provider of choice means you don't have to worry separately about battery backup because regulations usually require they provide that with their CPE; but it's not a big deal to hook your equipment up to a UPS either.

Re: EE is working with Qualcomm to add Wi-Fi 7 to consumer broadband hubs

#63

Post by supertrope »

agloe_dreams wrote: post #9

What annoys me is this: I have a TMobile iPhone 15 Pro and three Erro Pro 6 units, all with wired backhaul. Over the wire, my fast.com results repeatedly reach ~1.2 Gigs. Over Wifi, from a foot away, my results are around 650Mbps. The local church recently had T-Mobile install a 5G antenna array around it. I'm about two blocks away. Over 5G, I get 1.4Gigs down, though my walls, through an entire house between us. But…

https://www.duckware.com/tech/wifi-in-the-us.html#wifispeeds

Re: EE is working with Qualcomm to add Wi-Fi 7 to consumer broadband hubs

#64

Post by throw0101c »

mastercheif wrote: post #40
agloe_dreams wrote: post #9

What annoys me is this: I have a TMobile iPhone 15 Pro and three Erro Pro 6 units, all with wired backhaul. Over the wire, my fast.com results repeatedly reach ~1.2 Gigs. Over Wifi, from a foot away, my results are around 650Mbps. The local church recently had T-Mobile install a 5G antenna array around it. I'm about two blocks away. Over 5G, I get 1.4Gigs down, though my walls, through an entire house between us. But…

That’s because iPhones (and all other smartphones) use 2x2 mimo WiFi arrays. The only way you’ll get > 1 GBPS on WiFi is on a device with 3x3 or 4x4 mimo WiFi. 2x2 is used because it’s less power intensive and takes up less physical space in the device.

> The only way you’ll get > 1 GBPS on WiFi is on a device with 3x3 or 4x4 mimo WiFi.

At 160 MHz 802.11ax (5 GHz) should be able to get 1200 Mbps at the PHY layer with a single spatial stream:

* https://www.arubanetworks.com/assets/so/ReferenceGuide_80211...

Two streams gets you 2400 Mbps (PHY).

Re: EE is working with Qualcomm to add Wi-Fi 7 to consumer broadband hubs

#65

Post by pzo »

ilyt wrote: post #29
pzo wrote: post #6

> Wi-Fi 6's comparable maximum rate is 9.6Gbps. There is no consumer problem of today, no domestic use case imaginable, where 50Gbps works where 10 will not. iphone has just 2x2 MIMO antena so even with WiFi 6 can get only max 2.4Gbps (1.2Gbps per antena - someone correct me if I'm wrong). And those are only max speed in labs in perfect conditions. So there is definitely use case for WiFi 7 in consumer devices e.g. V…

Streaming raw video to VR headset is probably only situation when it makes sense for consumers. For near every single other thing it's a massive overkill

another example: Apple added camera continuity for latest tvOS, you might want make video call with 4k at 60fps - sure you probably want to compress it but still you want to reduce latency.

Also with smartphones that have 1 TB of storage would be nice to use it as fast wireless hard drive

Re: EE is working with Qualcomm to add Wi-Fi 7 to consumer broadband hubs

#66

Post by danaris »

pzo wrote: post #25
danaris wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm honestly struggling to come up with a use case for a single iPhone to need more than 300 megabytes per second (2.4Gbps) of bandwidth at any given time. (Noting that 8K video, in fairly un-optimized scenarios, appears to need about 96Mbps—just 12 megabytes per second, or 4% of that "low" bandwidth.) What are you doing, streaming raw, uncompressed video from multiple sources to a single iPhone? If you've got that m…

for iPhones maybe not but for drones or AR devices if you want to stream 4k at 60fps or 120fps then there is a lot of data to send. You could use iPhone as Drone payload for doing some site/construction inspection etc. Same with drones - they can fly very fast so would be nice to stream at 4k@120fps. Drones or iphones can/have many camera including lidar, depthmap (trudepth)

...Then what was the point of specifically calling out the 2x2 MIMO antennae of the iPhone?

Re: EE is working with Qualcomm to add Wi-Fi 7 to consumer broadband hubs

#67

Post by smeej »

throw0101c wrote: post #57
TacticalCoder wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It was technically possible to wire up entire countries and continents for electricity and phone service, so I doubt there are any technical hurdles in doing the same with fibre. France is aiming at 100% fiber coverage. I spent some time in a very remote, very rural part of France, far from the closest village... And I had fiber to the home (2 Gbps down // 600 Mbps up).

> […] far from the closest village... And I had fiber to the home (2 Gbps down // 600 Mbps up). You were probably not surprised that the dwelling you were in had electricity. I think at some point having fibre should also be as unsurprising.

Interestingly, there are a lot of places near me in northern New England where I genuinely am surprised to find electricity (or plumbing, for that matter) in a house.

Some places are just that hard to get to.

Re: EE is working with Qualcomm to add Wi-Fi 7 to consumer broadband hubs

#68

Post by pzo »

danaris wrote: post #66
pzo wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

for iPhones maybe not but for drones or AR devices if you want to stream 4k at 60fps or 120fps then there is a lot of data to send. You could use iPhone as Drone payload for doing some site/construction inspection etc. Same with drones - they can fly very fast so would be nice to stream at 4k@120fps. Drones or iphones can/have many camera including lidar, depthmap (trudepth)

...Then what was the point of specifically calling out the 2x2 MIMO antennae of the iPhone?

that 9.6Gbps speed mentioned in the article doesn't apply for most consumer devices because they have only 2 antennas. Only expensive routers have many antennas to reach such speed. Not sure if we can have 8 antennas in smartphones

Re: EE is working with Qualcomm to add Wi-Fi 7 to consumer broadband hubs

#69

Post by em-bee »

giantg2 wrote: post #38

I would rather have ethernet in every room and a less sophisticated/powerful wifi. It seems ethernet is fairly rare even in new construction.

20 years ago when we renovated an old house, while the electrician was digging chases into the walls i asked him to add an extra empty pipe for ethernet next to each cable pipe. it barely cost any extra work, and later i ran the ethernet cable myself with the help of a friend.

i don't live in that house any more, but my usage patterns with a laptop moving around frequently make wifi a far more practical experience. the extra effort of cabling just isn't worth the cost.

in a larger houses i'd want one ethernet cable from the entrance to the center and to the back so that you can hook up multiple wifi access points, but that's it.

Re: EE is working with Qualcomm to add Wi-Fi 7 to consumer broadband hubs

#70

Post by dboreham »

throw0101c wrote: post #64
mastercheif wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s because iPhones (and all other smartphones) use 2x2 mimo WiFi arrays. The only way you’ll get > 1 GBPS on WiFi is on a device with 3x3 or 4x4 mimo WiFi. 2x2 is used because it’s less power intensive and takes up less physical space in the device.

> The only way you’ll get > 1 GBPS on WiFi is on a device with 3x3 or 4x4 mimo WiFi. At 160 MHz 802.11ax (5 GHz) should be able to get 1200 Mbps at the PHY layer with a single spatial stream: * https://www.arubanetworks.com/assets/so/ReferenceGuide_80211... Two streams gets you 2400 Mbps (PHY).

And you have to divide the PHY symbol rate by 4 to get the real world TCP throughout achievable.
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