Live data from Hacker News

The great cancellation: why megabucks TV shows are vanishing without a trace

theguardian.com

61–70 of 88 posts

Re: The great cancellation: why megabucks TV shows are vanishing without a trace

#61
post #50

Another reason not mentioned for cancelling those shows: no one watched them? Not that I'm representative, but there was only one in there that I watch: Severance.

The article mentions shows being cancelled after they were made and ready to stream. Even if nobody is going to watch it, if you already paid for the production and it’s ready, why not put it online?

You're right, but I suspect they have some pre-availability numbers -- who would watch this if it were available? Test markets, focus groups, etc.

Re: The great cancellation: why megabucks TV shows are vanishing without a trace

#63
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Content" is uninteresting unless it can be monetised. I mean, why would anyone write a blog post or piece of software, much less a book or a song if there were no money attached?

I've written many blog posts, pieces of software, and songs, that have all made exactly $0.

And I'm glad you have!

I was complaining that in public discourse, anything not monetizable is disregarded, despite it making up (IMHO) the bulk of human activities and creation.

Re: The great cancellation: why megabucks TV shows are vanishing without a trace

#64
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've written many blog posts, pieces of software, and songs, that have all made exactly $0.

And I'm glad you have! I was complaining that in public discourse, anything not monetizable is disregarded, despite it making up (IMHO) the bulk of human activities and creation.

So you forgot to add /s to your original post.

Re: The great cancellation: why megabucks TV shows are vanishing without a trace

#65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The write off is based on the cost of creating the show. I think the article is wrong/sloppily phrased in its line about the value of the company. If they remove a show then it will never generate any future revenue so they can write the cost of producing it off as a loss. The real scandal here is how little viewership streaming shows get and how little revenue they generate off of that viewership. Particularly for h…

Why is it the bean counters need to perfectly pair the cost of show A with views of show A? And then cheaper B to B? There’s a synergy in having the whole platform. Your advice would be telling Apple to ditch the $10 headphone dongle because it has a low ROI, and they should be using the factory to crank out more iphones…

That's not the exercise. The exercise is "make it if and only if it will generate more revenue than it costs[1]". That doesn't have to be because people watch it. A prestige show (Succession, say) can bring people to a platform where they end up watching something less demanding (Friends, say). Even if nobody watches the prestige show, therefore, it can still be worth it. That makes it hard to know what is profitable.

[1] where "cost" includes "opportunity cost"

Re: The great cancellation: why megabucks TV shows are vanishing without a trace

#66
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And I'm glad you have! I was complaining that in public discourse, anything not monetizable is disregarded, despite it making up (IMHO) the bulk of human activities and creation.

So you forgot to add /s to your original post.

I added the second sentence of the post instead.

Re: The great cancellation: why megabucks TV shows are vanishing without a trace

#67
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re asking the right question here. We need to hear more about that.

It was a shit show.

They kept pushing it, but never seemed to get any traction.

Re: The great cancellation: why megabucks TV shows are vanishing without a trace

#68
post #9

How much of this tax reduction is based on convoluted Hollywood accounting? If the tax on the value of the show is higher than the streaming revenues, doesn’t that imply that the valuation is bogus? Can someone explain how the numbers add up here?

The write off is based on the cost of creating the show. I think the article is wrong/sloppily phrased in its line about the value of the company. If they remove a show then it will never generate any future revenue so they can write the cost of producing it off as a loss. The real scandal here is how little viewership streaming shows get and how little revenue they generate off of that viewership. Particularly for h…

"In 2022 Netflix spent $16 billion on producing shows [https://variety.com/2023/digital/news/netflix-content-spendi...] to generate shockingly few viewing hours (which is why they will never agree to WGA demands to release viewership numbers in order to pay writers residuals"

So, Netflix declines to release viewing numbers but you somehow know they're insufficient to their bottom line to support their spend?

Re: The great cancellation: why megabucks TV shows are vanishing without a trace

#69
post #51

"...2021’s Ultimate Slip ’N Slide was cancelled after the crew all came down with a highly infectious variant of explosive diarrhoea that can be spread through tainted water." Wait, why didn't we get an article on just that?

https://www.thewrap.com/slip-n-slide-show-nbc-diarrhea-shut-...

You know, if they had worked this properly, the delay/shutdown could have just stoked interest, and they would have ended up with a much bigger audience. On the other hand, if the people involved aren't willing to return, that's understandable.

Re: The great cancellation: why megabucks TV shows are vanishing without a trace

#70
post #3

This article doesn't really explain the "why". The title is very misleading.

Seems like the economic logic of streaming has changed, and this article failed to explain how, merely hint at it.

The economic logic of streaming never changed, it's just that it never made sense. All of the decision making for what shows get made require, at a minimum, some kind of attribution for what people actually want to see, and remuneration commensurate with that attribution. That attribution and remuneration also needs to be transparent so that everyone involved in the production can negotiate their value.

In movies, the attribution was ticket sales, later home video rentals and sales. TV was attributed with Nielsen numbers and ad spend. Streaming doesn't work this way: they don't sell ads[0], and they don't charge per view, they just charge a flat fee. How that flat fee gets remunerated to the producers of the shows and movies on their platform is a complicated mess. Attribution could be done with view counts, except streaming services have been very notoriously cagey with those numbers.

In fact, part of the reason why SAG-AFTRA is getting stonewalled on streaming is that nobody in the industry wants those numbers to be public.

What happens if you don't get attribution is that the actual creative work gets devalued. You can see this in the wording that the streaming services use: they no longer show movies or TV shows, but "content" - i.e. entertainment slurry. The value of their service is not in the creative work it can provide to you but the delivery mechanism used to get it there. It's a weird parallel to the net neutrality arguments of yesterdecade, where ISPs didn't want to be 'dumb pipes', but instead actively managing the traffic of their users. And to be clear, streaming services do a lot of active management.

I suspect that if SAG-AFTRA wins, a lot of really embarrassing reports will come out suggesting that all these streaming exclusive shows were actually pulling in terrible numbers and that streaming is not nearly as much of a growth market as people thought.

[0] Well, up until recently, anyway.

Post reply on HN