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My Caste

cs.toronto.edu

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Re: My Caste

#61

Post by klyrs »

biogene wrote: post #46

This whole idea is completely wrong, in my opinion. You first need to demonstrate why your sampling model/methodology (collection of top50 NA CS departments) will lead to an error-free way to establish a discrimination type mechanism of selection. There is a near absence of people of South east asian origin in the NFL, but I don't think the NFL is doing so on discriminatory grounds. The end result is under-representa…

Elephants do not exist, so there could not possibly be one in this room. Instead, let's self-soothe with talk of flaws in common elephant-detection methodologies, because that will reassure us that the room is elephant-free. Nevermind the pervasive smell of elephant shit.

Re: My Caste

#62

Post by banshiram123 »

soligern wrote: post #53

Honestly I think this is majorly overblown. Having lived in both India and the US and being in my late 30s, I’ve never seen caste come up in any conversation even once. That’s tens of thousands of Indian people at the very least. Feels like this person is hyper aware of his caste and seems to take steps bordering on paranoia.

[flagged]

Re: My Caste

#63

Post by ToValueFunfetti »

dotnet00 wrote: post #48
isanjay wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So, this is a claim they believe is true and would be happy to be corrected You don't claim something on based on beliefs. He already has evidence on IIT. Why talk about North America if he doesn't have data to back up it up ?

Are the Indians in NA somehow fundamentally different? It isn't like we've left the rest of our social/cultural practices and ills behind upon moving to the West. Thus it makes sense that if there's evidence of caste based discrimination at the highest levels of education in India, there is likely such discrimination in Indian communities in the West too.

One important difference is that Indo-Canadians make up about 5% of the Canadian population. It would be surprising if the higher caste subset of that 5% was capable of suppressing access to tenure-track positions across the board. Moreso if it's extended to NA, as the number is ~1.5% in the US. Less if I'm supposed to assume that people from India prefer to work for other Indians, or if Indians are overrepresented in CS academia positions.

I also tend to imagine that those in academia are considerably more likely than the general population to reject racism.

Re: My Caste

#64

Post by isanjay »

dotnet00 wrote: post #48
isanjay wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So, this is a claim they believe is true and would be happy to be corrected You don't claim something on based on beliefs. He already has evidence on IIT. Why talk about North America if he doesn't have data to back up it up ?

Are the Indians in NA somehow fundamentally different? It isn't like we've left the rest of our social/cultural practices and ills behind upon moving to the West. Thus it makes sense that if there's evidence of caste based discrimination at the highest levels of education in India, there is likely such discrimination in Indian communities in the West too.

> Are the Indians in NA somehow fundamentally different?

I am not denying the presence of discrimination in North America. I believe it exists.

Re: My Caste

#65

Post by Philpax »

soligern wrote: post #53

Honestly I think this is majorly overblown. Having lived in both India and the US and being in my late 30s, I’ve never seen caste come up in any conversation even once. That’s tens of thousands of Indian people at the very least. Feels like this person is hyper aware of his caste and seems to take steps bordering on paranoia.

Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't happen...

Re: My Caste

#66

Post by Bjartr »

isanjay wrote: post #16
teachrdan wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just posted this on a probably-dead thread about caste discrimination, but the short of it is the folks who wish to discriminate by caste have a variety of ways to determine what your caste is. From the Vice article below: Indians will not ask outright what caste you are, as it’s seen as overly discriminatory, but they use more subtle methods to identify your place in the caste structure. “Sometimes they ask, ‘Are…

> Indians will not ask outright what caste you are. My team lead asked me in a Teams call, lol. At that point, he doesn't even know what I look like (because of covid, and we don't do video calls). (I am not OBC though) > Higher-caste Indians will also search social media accounts to ascertain a job candidate’s religious views or diet. I don't believe this at all. Feels like overexaggerating.

> I don't believe this at all. Feels like overexaggerating.

Never underestimate how petty people can be. We've seen plenty of times in the past decade where people doing hiring will examine social media of candidates (on the extreme end even demand handing over of your phone phone during an interview). So it's hardly a stretch to think people with such views could overlap with people who harbor caste prejudice.

Re: My Caste

#67

Post by daveguy »

soligern wrote: post #53

Honestly I think this is majorly overblown. Having lived in both India and the US and being in my late 30s, I’ve never seen caste come up in any conversation even once. That’s tens of thousands of Indian people at the very least. Feels like this person is hyper aware of his caste and seems to take steps bordering on paranoia.

Just curious, what caste were you born into?

Re: My Caste

#68

Post by flownoon2 »

soligern wrote: post #53

Honestly I think this is majorly overblown. Having lived in both India and the US and being in my late 30s, I’ve never seen caste come up in any conversation even once. That’s tens of thousands of Indian people at the very least. Feels like this person is hyper aware of his caste and seems to take steps bordering on paranoia.

The author says that:

1. OBCs are estimated to comprise 40-45% of India's population

and

2. Exactly one out of 180 CS faculty members across five IITs belongs to OBC category

Those two facts alone make it sound like a pretty big deal to me, even if it hasn't been a part of your experience in India. Or do you think he is wrong about those numbers?

Re: My Caste

#70

Post by aj7 »

soligern wrote: post #53

Honestly I think this is majorly overblown. Having lived in both India and the US and being in my late 30s, I’ve never seen caste come up in any conversation even once. That’s tens of thousands of Indian people at the very least. Feels like this person is hyper aware of his caste and seems to take steps bordering on paranoia.

When you’re getting f’d over, it never “comes up in conversation.”
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