Feds probing roughly 5k pilots suspected of withholding major health issues • Hacker News Board

Re: Feds probing roughly 5k pilots suspected of withholding major health issues

#61

Post by hedora » Mon, Aug 28, 2023, 2:34 PM UTC

mattw2121 wrote: post #2

"The pilots who have had their records examined are military veterans who informed the Federal Aviation Administration that they were suitable to fly, but didn't disclose that they were also receiving veterans benefits for various disabilities that could prevent them from effectively sitting in a pilot's seat." This is just my anecdotal observations, but I've seen that military veterans are extremely adept at gaming…

What happened to medical record confidentiality?

Presumably this is a slow normalization of deviance play, and using people’s medical records against them will be commonplace soon.

Starting with vets is particularly cynical, but sadly unsurprising.

Anyway, since these records can be used to screw vets over, can vets also access the statistics they’d need to prove safety violations and other forms of negligence in the chain of command?

Re: Feds probing roughly 5k pilots suspected of withholding major health issues

#62

Post by 23B1 » Mon, Aug 28, 2023, 2:37 PM UTC

justrealist wrote: post #38

nickpeterson wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not a vet, but I wonder if it comes from working in an environment that is so massive, at times wasteful, and your contributions feel insignificant. I think a lot of people could convince themselves that if they don’t take advantage of something, someone else will.

The negative PR from wrongfully denying a vet benefits is so bad, and the system is completely un-incentivized to be cost-effective, that there are basically 0 real eligibility tests. Any politician (or bureaucrat) who says "you know, maybe we should be denying disability to 20% of these veterans" is going to be strung up and quartered. So, nobody tries.

I'd wager that a big part of the PR hazard is that American taxpayers supported the war(s) – and therefore there is a sense of obligation amongst them that vets should get whatever support they think they need.

Not saying grift is excusable, but there's a lot of checks and balances on this system – not the least of which if a veteran is caught lying, he loses his benefits and may even have to pay them back.

Re: Feds probing roughly 5k pilots suspected of withholding major health issues

#63

Post by tycho-newman » Mon, Aug 28, 2023, 2:39 PM UTC

briffle wrote: post #48

kotaKat wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the FAA's normal mental health brigade horseshit, except this time it's the FAA snooping around in VA records just because they can. It looks like the veterans being targeted have various concerns like PTSD, which the FAA finds that as soon as you even think you're depressed, they want to revoke your pilots license because they think you'll immediately pull Some Shit in the air. The average person has no clue ho…

Right, its not like hundreds of people's lives are in these pilot's hands. I can't imagine what a depressed pilot might do.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanwings_Flight_9525

Perfectly competent pilots have killed more people than depressed ones since the beginning of flight. Empirically, non-depressed pilots are more of a risk to the public. But they don't get this kind of stigma.

Re: Feds probing roughly 5k pilots suspected of withholding major health issues

#64

Post by Geisterde » Mon, Aug 28, 2023, 2:39 PM UTC

dh2022 wrote: post #50

Geisterde wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The moment you realize debt is devalued over time and begin taking on debt to acquire hard assets, like anybody who is smart with their money, you are gaming the system. Its not to say people aren't legitimately creating value or building good businesses, but those businesses necessarily must pay the minimum required taxes to be competitive in the market against someone else who will. Politicians invest in stocks tha…

Debt is devalued in time when interest rates raise. The last couple of years aside, debt value has been increasing since interest rates peaked in late 1970s.

Debt is devalued because the money is getting cheaper, I know in 20 years my debt will be easier to manage even though the payments in the nominal denomination of currency has not changed. Inflation is programmatic in a monetary system where currency can only be created through debt, if there werent inflation then every existing dollar would eventually disappear to pay interest to the fed, and there would still be outstanding debt. The practical implications of this are that even if there is a touch of inflation then it can cause a contagion even that shuts down the banks.

Re: Feds probing roughly 5k pilots suspected of withholding major health issues

#65

Post by TechBro8615 » Mon, Aug 28, 2023, 2:39 PM UTC

mattw2121 wrote: post #56

mattw2121 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I have anecdotal evidence that people are gaming the system to get more than they deserve. I have directly observed multiple Vietnam Vets gaming the Agent Orange system to get 90-100% disability. The would visit multiple doctors to get the wording they needed to supply evidence that some health issue was related to Agent Orange. Their goal was to get a doctor to write down that a particular health issue "might"…

(responding to to sibling comment) No, I'm not a doctor that has examined them. I have been told by these people that they want to maximize their disability payments and they can do that by claiming things are caused by agent orange. I've been told by them that they will shop around the diagnosis until they get something in writing they can use. I have been told by these people that they don't care if it is related t…

So basically getting a second opinion from another doctor is somehow fraudulent behavior? If you have a problem with this, shouldn't it be with the quack doctors making the diagnoses and not the patients?

I was diagnosed with ADHD because I (truthfully) told a doctor I had the symptoms of ADHD. Now I have a prescription for adderall. Did I commit fraud?

Re: Feds probing roughly 5k pilots suspected of withholding major health issues

#66

Post by nmjohn » Mon, Aug 28, 2023, 2:40 PM UTC

briffle wrote: post #48

kotaKat wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the FAA's normal mental health brigade horseshit, except this time it's the FAA snooping around in VA records just because they can. It looks like the veterans being targeted have various concerns like PTSD, which the FAA finds that as soon as you even think you're depressed, they want to revoke your pilots license because they think you'll immediately pull Some Shit in the air. The average person has no clue ho…

Right, its not like hundreds of people's lives are in these pilot's hands. I can't imagine what a depressed pilot might do.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanwings_Flight_9525

Do you know what prevents people from doing that? Being able to get help for their problems. Do you know what doesn't? Forcing them to hide their problems so they are able to keep their job.

The discussion isn't really about whether suicidal pilots should be allowed to fly - it's whether the system should allow for pilots with mental health concerns (which would be a large majority of them over the course of an entire career) to seek treatment for it without losing their job.

Re: Feds probing roughly 5k pilots suspected of withholding major health issues

#67

Post by tycho-newman » Mon, Aug 28, 2023, 2:41 PM UTC

hedora wrote: post #61

mattw2121 wrote: post #2

"The pilots who have had their records examined are military veterans who informed the Federal Aviation Administration that they were suitable to fly, but didn't disclose that they were also receiving veterans benefits for various disabilities that could prevent them from effectively sitting in a pilot's seat." This is just my anecdotal observations, but I've seen that military veterans are extremely adept at gaming…

What happened to medical record confidentiality? Presumably this is a slow normalization of deviance play, and using people’s medical records against them will be commonplace soon. Starting with vets is particularly cynical, but sadly unsurprising. Anyway, since these records can be used to screw vets over, can vets also access the statistics they’d need to prove safety violations and other forms of negligence in the…

It is routine for government agencies to audit medical claims records for waste, fraud,and abuse. These uses are well-defined in existing American medical privacy laws.

Re: Feds probing roughly 5k pilots suspected of withholding major health issues

#68

Post by Geisterde » Mon, Aug 28, 2023, 2:41 PM UTC

pc86 wrote: post #60

Geisterde wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why can't a business like exxon secure contracts for your oil? You benefit from the government doing it on a first order where the worlds oil is priced in your native currency, secondary effects may include the world hating you, the destruction of domestic production, your cultural traditions fading into obscurity, corruption, the joining of political and corporate interests. Ask your doctor before taking.

What do you mean by "secure contracts" in this context?

Exxon signs a contract with oil producers in Iraq or Saudi Arabia, Exxon pays them for the oil and those countries provide it, they put it on a boat and ship it to the US, the put it in a gas station and sell it to you by the gallon.

Re: Feds probing roughly 5k pilots suspected of withholding major health issues

#69

Post by mattw2121 » Mon, Aug 28, 2023, 2:42 PM UTC

black6 wrote: post #58

dghughes wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've seen that military veterans are extremely adept at gaming the system to their benefit. They are able to maximize disability benefits as well as GI Bill benefits. I'm not in the USA but really to me that's just seems like they are getting what they should. Any citizen of any country should get medical care free of charge. Military veterans whether their issue is from combat or not I think should get all the car…

A lot of us veterans were paid below the poverty line most of the time we were in the service. Disability benefits are one way many seek to get what they're owed.

Can you provide specific details on this? My understanding is that even if you were continually at the rank of E-1 (which would never happen), your salary + housing + subsistence would put you well over the poverty line.

Re: Feds probing roughly 5k pilots suspected of withholding major health issues

#70

Post by sedivy94 » Mon, Aug 28, 2023, 2:43 PM UTC

docandrew wrote: post #36

mattw2121 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These benefits (and the gaming of them) are not about receiving medical care. These veterans already get free medical care from the VA. It's about monetary payments. They game the VA disability system to get paid.

I’m not sure how “gaming” it is possible when the VA either performs (or contracts out) medical exams for a veteran’s specific claim and determines whether the veteran is eligible or not. It’s not like they just take a veteran’s word for it.

I work on a military base and can attest to this. Many prior enlisted (veterans) feel that they get shafted (screwed or taken advantage of) by the contract between themselves and USG during their service. Their pay is low and transitioning back to a civilian lifestyle is incredibly difficult, despite their compulsory, Congress-mandated transition assistance training. Maximizing their disability claims is one way of getting what they deserve.

The VA has a disability rating system that goes from 0% to 100%. Obtaining a 100% disability rating guarantees a certain amount of monthly income for life. The step increase in pay from 80% disability to 100% disability is large. There’s also a logarithmic function that makes it increasingly difficult to raise your disability rating after each disability claim. Hypothetically, losing your left leg might qualify for 50% disability, losing a second leg might qualify for 75%, and then losing an arm might qualify for 87.5%. Pretty horrendous.

That being said, many service members aim to hack the system by making disability claims for everything under the sun. Service members often collect disabilities such as arthritis, lumbar disc degradation, knee injuries, sleep apnea, and depression. Like Pokémon - gotta catch ‘em all.