Live data from Hacker News

Is Germany once again the sick man of Europe?

economist.com

61–70 of 200 posts

Re: Is Germany once again the sick man of Europe?

#61
post #42
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your case is a classic example of sunk cost fallacy

Perhaps, perhaps not. I'll get an EU passport next year. Oops scratch that the wait for naturalization is now upto two years. So I'll get an EU passport in 3 years, and then the right to be able to move to any of 27 countries at my discretion will more than make up for this time and energy I've spent here.

Where will you move afterwards?

Re: Is Germany once again the sick man of Europe?

#62
post #26

As an immigrant (and a very well paid one paying obnoxiously high taxes), I've recommended every single person asking if they should move from India to Germany to not to. The only upgrade is in cleaner air to breathe and safety from crime. If you're in the higher earning bracket in India, then you get these there itself. So then moving to Germany from India is like stepping back into 1996. Every single thing is so ob…

> If I paid the same amount in insurance in India, I'd have a helicopter flown out every time I stubbed my toe.

You are free to go private if you earn more than 60k a year and you get all the helicopters and 3-d printed tooth fillings. The only problem is that you can get back to public only if you get fired.

> Germans who foolishly believe that Germany is a great country to live

It's not Germans who foolishly believe these things, but all the immigrants who come to Germany over and over each year. If there were not so much immigration then the services for exams would be 1 week instead of 5 months.

> So long as the omas and opas get their pension, Germany will stay as it is for ever - there is no need to change in their view.

I strongly advise anyone who moves to Germany to start private pension scheme immediately because in 30 years there will be no pension in Germany, most likely.

Re: Is Germany once again the sick man of Europe?

#63
I'm currently in the process of moving my business (one-man show, incorporated LLC doing IT/SW Eng.) out of Germany. The amount of bureaucracy running even the smallest of companies with no office at all (work out of home) is hilarious.

So much you need to get an accountant/tax advisor, but even then they will pass-through a lot of the bureaucracy. I need to put down excel sheets for every day of a business trip I do, mark whether its been longer or shorter than 8 hours, arrival/leave day etc. And double pay attention that the hotel you stayed didn't include breakfast, or at least had it separate on the invoice. If getting a company car, you are in for some real tax hell.

On top of that, the accountant charges ~5.000€/year for this single-person business (personal income tax declaration included). And no, it is not just an expensive accountant, as in Germany accountant prices are regulated just as lawyer fees are (they can max. give you 20% discount). Meanwhile, when I talk to my friends in Spain they pay less than 1.000€/year for accounting for an LLC (S.L.) with not even close the bureaucracy. And bear in mind, I'm german and speak the language, but even I struggle to keep up with all tax- and business regulations. On top of that, we have the highest tax load and social insurance is also amongst the top price ranges, while waiting months for a doctors appointment.

Re: Is Germany once again the sick man of Europe?

#64
post #48
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Otherwise, you are mostly just coming for economic reasons, and countries don't need that. You sure about that? For example, there's nothing better for a country like Germany to have an inmigrant who has: - got a bacherlo/masters degree in a different country other than Germany - has a job in a German company and earns well above the average German citizen - pays tons of taxes - is relatively young (between 20 and…

All true. But they don't need people showing up just to gripe and complain.

Oh, griping and complaining are favourite German pastimes. A foreigner who has those two down already is halfway integrated and about to get citizenship.

Re: Is Germany once again the sick man of Europe?

#65
post #26

As an immigrant (and a very well paid one paying obnoxiously high taxes), I've recommended every single person asking if they should move from India to Germany to not to. The only upgrade is in cleaner air to breathe and safety from crime. If you're in the higher earning bracket in India, then you get these there itself. So then moving to Germany from India is like stepping back into 1996. Every single thing is so ob…

That is just your experience. You say as if things in India are all bed of roses. No major city in India (forget small towns) can boast of breathable air, manageable traffic, potable water from the tap or 24 hours of electricity. Women's safety - lol. Finding a place where there is a clean lake or some non-polluted piece of nature - forget that in North India.

Not to mention as a minority, who knows when you can be lynched or arrested for stating your opinion.

People come here, reek of privilege, miss their life in India where they had 3 servants for everything and also forget that if they have to go to any government office in India they have to pay bribes.

Also, please show some respect to the country you live in.

Re: Is Germany once again the sick man of Europe?

#66

As a foreigner living in Germany for the best part of a decade, I tend to agree with the article that the situation is not dire but, at the same time, it does need work. The train situation is a good starting point: an industry that used to be great and has been in slow decline for years without anyone doing anything other than shrugging and saying "well, that's how it is" or "yeah, but we are still better than X". I…

The train situation is also a great example of how to get some of the worst parts of private and public. It was privatized, but is 100% owned by the government …

And FWIW, getting an appointment (both doctors and Bürgeramt) has been getting better and better every year here. Bürgeramt is now fully online, you can even pay by credit card, I’ve had an online diagnosis with a skin doctor that my health insurance paid for via OAuth, I can now have other appointments via websites.

This was Partially driven by COVID, partially because it’s simply advancing.

Re: Is Germany once again the sick man of Europe?

#67
post #26

As an immigrant (and a very well paid one paying obnoxiously high taxes), I've recommended every single person asking if they should move from India to Germany to not to. The only upgrade is in cleaner air to breathe and safety from crime. If you're in the higher earning bracket in India, then you get these there itself. So then moving to Germany from India is like stepping back into 1996. Every single thing is so ob…

I mean, I don’t have those problems. Without any workarounds being required. What do you want me to do, make up problems and fight against them?

So if you don't face the problem personally you don't voice out against it? You do realize how cause and effect works right? If you don't voice out and change the system this is what happens:

1. More and more immigrants stop coming to Germany.

2. Taxes and Pensions dry up.

3. Already stressed and broken infrastructure can no longer be maintained thanks to lack of funds.

4. Your quality of life (that of the guy who never faces these problems) goes down because you did not speak out and help change the system.

But yes, by all means be typisch Deutsch and stick your head in the sand. Let's see how that helps when the car manufacturing industry is long gone and Germany is the Greece of the 2030s.

Re: Is Germany once again the sick man of Europe?

#68

> Germany has liberalised its immigration rules, but the visa process is still glacial and the system favours refugees over professionals who might want to settle in the country. A big issue for professionals to move is they have to learn German.

Is there any citation in the original article for the claim that it favours refugees? It's paywalled for me.

Re: Is Germany once again the sick man of Europe?

#69
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, I don’t have those problems. Without any workarounds being required. What do you want me to do, make up problems and fight against them?

So if you don't face the problem personally you don't voice out against it? You do realize how cause and effect works right? If you don't voice out and change the system this is what happens: 1. More and more immigrants stop coming to Germany. 2. Taxes and Pensions dry up. 3. Already stressed and broken infrastructure can no longer be maintained thanks to lack of funds. 4. Your quality of life (that of the guy who ne…

Love people like you, move right towards insulting others. Maybe that’s why you have those issues. Not even going to bother arguing with people like you.

Re: Is Germany once again the sick man of Europe?

#70
post #42
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your case is a classic example of sunk cost fallacy

Perhaps, perhaps not. I'll get an EU passport next year. Oops scratch that the wait for naturalization is now upto two years. So I'll get an EU passport in 3 years, and then the right to be able to move to any of 27 countries at my discretion will more than make up for this time and energy I've spent here.

Sorry, but I hope you can show these countries a little bit more respect than the country that provided you with the ability to get very well paid, got you clean are and safety from crime.
Post reply on HN