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Is Germany once again the sick man of Europe?

economist.com

31–40 of 200 posts

Re: Is Germany once again the sick man of Europe?

#32

> Germany has liberalised its immigration rules, but the visa process is still glacial and the system favours refugees over professionals who might want to settle in the country. A big issue for professionals to move is they have to learn German.

Uh hu big thing. Hint: if you want to live in a different country, you should at least try to somewhat adapt the official language spoken, and also somewhat have a sweet spot for its culture. Otherwise, you are mostly just coming for economic reasons, and countries don't need that.

As someone else complained beforehand: the public health system is already strained, the influx of illegals, refugees and other immigrants didn't help the situation - what where people expecting?

Re: Is Germany once again the sick man of Europe?

#33

> Germany has liberalised its immigration rules, but the visa process is still glacial and the system favours refugees over professionals who might want to settle in the country. A big issue for professionals to move is they have to learn German.

At least from my experience, the biggest issue is finding a decent place to live. With this I mean:

- if you don't speak German, then chances are you want to live in the big cities (Berlin, Hamburg, Munich, Frankfurt, Cologne,...) where some fraction of the population speak English... but in those cities there's a huge demand for flats and the offer is not up to it. Also, just by not speaking German you cut probably 50% of the flat offers already because they are offered by people who don't speak English

- if you just moved to Germany and you're applying to a flat, chances are they will ask you your last 3 payslips (this is not a law, but if they ask and you don't provide, well goodbye!)

Re: Is Germany once again the sick man of Europe?

#34
Anecdotally my experience dealing with German companies being in the UK is that they can be highly detail-oriented and process driven, to the point where they can be hard to work with if you are outside Germany.

It seems that progressing fast with high levels of uncertainty and ambiguity isn't common, while other western companies seem happier to proceed faster with a looser brief and to solve problems flexibly as they come along.

Of course this won't be a universal truth and it might just be my personal experience, and it might also be a benefit in many situations, but I've always felt Germany has a different work culture compared to other European and Western countries.

Re: Is Germany once again the sick man of Europe?

#35
post #26

As an immigrant (and a very well paid one paying obnoxiously high taxes), I've recommended every single person asking if they should move from India to Germany to not to. The only upgrade is in cleaner air to breathe and safety from crime. If you're in the higher earning bracket in India, then you get these there itself. So then moving to Germany from India is like stepping back into 1996. Every single thing is so ob…

Great Schnitzel though

Re: Is Germany once again the sick man of Europe?

#36
post #26

As an immigrant (and a very well paid one paying obnoxiously high taxes), I've recommended every single person asking if they should move from India to Germany to not to. The only upgrade is in cleaner air to breathe and safety from crime. If you're in the higher earning bracket in India, then you get these there itself. So then moving to Germany from India is like stepping back into 1996. Every single thing is so ob…

Your case is a classic example of sunk cost fallacy

Re: Is Germany once again the sick man of Europe?

#37

> Germany has liberalised its immigration rules, but the visa process is still glacial and the system favours refugees over professionals who might want to settle in the country. A big issue for professionals to move is they have to learn German.

I've always thought about having simple dialects of languages: limited vocabulary, only three tenses, no declinations (in the languages they have, i.e. German) and only regular verbs (in the languages they have, i.e. Spanish). Would it be possible?

The EU has a framework, CEFR, that describes language levels of proficiency, starting at A1, and ending in C2. A1 requires you to be able to understand simple phrases about everyday, concrete topics. For example, suggest activities based on the weather forecast. C2 is essentially fluency.

This outdated overview (2009) shows that most European countries only require A1/A2 for residency, and for citizenship B1 or B2 at most. https://rm.coe.int/16802fc1d9

Re: Is Germany once again the sick man of Europe?

#38
post #11

The anecdotal evidence the author supplies: economic growth is slow, trains are late, IT investment as a % of GDP is half that of US and France, business license takes 120 days to acquire. Nowhere does it seem to talk about living standards of the population. As if the economy is its own end and the population is just an epiphenomenon.

> business license takes 120 days to acquire.

That's bullshit. A Gewerbeanmeldung for a one-person startup or a GbR (same, just with more than one person) takes one DIN A4 sheet of paper per person, and about half an hour of waiting at the city authority.

An LLC (UG, GmbH, AG) takes more effort to form, yes (including raising 12.500€ of capital for the GmbH/AG), but you can easily transition from an existing Einzelunternehmen/GbR to a LLC.

Re: Is Germany once again the sick man of Europe?

#39

> Added to this are worsening geopolitics, the difficulty of eliminating carbon emissions and the travails of an ageing population. Worsening geopolitics and an ageing population are more immideate problem compared to the inability to eliminate (not reduce) carbon emissions. Or am I missing something? Can someone explain to me why ”eliminating carbon emissions” was sandwiched between the other two issues?

It's an Agenda 2030 propaganda piece.

Re: Is Germany once again the sick man of Europe?

#40
As a foreigner living in Germany for the best part of a decade, I tend to agree with the article that the situation is not dire but, at the same time, it does need work.

The train situation is a good starting point: an industry that used to be great and has been in slow decline for years without anyone doing anything other than shrugging and saying "well, that's how it is" or "yeah, but we are still better than X". I cannot speak for major macroeconomic trends but, as an individual, I can say that getting a doctor's appointment, an apartment, internet (not just the speed, but also getting the actual connection), a mandatory appointment at the "Bürgeramt" (and don't get me started on my citizenship application!) and (of course) traveling by train have been getting slightly more frustrating every year.

I know some of it is part of wider, world-wide tendencies (thanks, AirBnB), but it's also fair to recognize that the German government is getting asleep at the wheel. I actually appreciate that the government tends to err on the side of caution, but I also have to recognize that there's a line between "caution" and "paralyzed". I don't need to pay my taxes with Venmo, but I do need an apartment that I can actually afford to rent.

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