I am more disturbed by the fact that the infrastructure was already in place to instantly block Telegram as soon as a judge ordered it.
Brazil judge orders temporary suspension of Telegram
61–70 of 245 posts
Re: Brazil judge orders temporary suspension of Telegram
#62Earlier quoted context omitted.
No company should give up it's user data without a fight It's not even clear that who they were looking for had broken any laws
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Nazism? What a laugh. Here's the real reason for these blocks:
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/08/world/americas/brazil-tel...
Re: Brazil judge orders temporary suspension of Telegram
#63Earlier quoted context omitted.
You are correct. Brazilian had a CIA backed dictatorship during cold War, and when it ended people made sure to make a constitution that would prevent another one. Sadly the constitution is being ignored for a while now, the current government is strongly against free speech, the previous government also had issues. Meanwhile the Supreme Court are the ones that really hate the constitution, for example a guy was arre…
Strongly against free speech... They are discussing a "fake news" law literally right now. It contains terms like "internet supervision entity".
Please clarify whether you are referring to some proposed law in Brazil or the RESTRICT act being proposed in the USA?
Re: Brazil judge orders temporary suspension of Telegram
#64This has happened several times before with other services: https://bloqueios.info/en/timeline/ Unfortunately this site hasn't been updated since 2016, but I don't think that's because these kinds of orders have stopped being issued. They've previously been issued on various occasions by a state judge when a company either ignores or says it can't technically comply with a subpoena or injunction in a court case, and…
This time the DNS block was ordered directly by a supreme court judge. No one can overturn that. Also, the political scenario was different. Brazil used to at least pretend to be a democracy with a constitution and rule of law. Since then, these supreme court judges have done far worse than block some messaging service. This is literally nothing to people like them.
> This time the DNS block was ordered directly by a supreme court judge. No one can overturn that.
I think you're mistaken, unless there was an incredibly rapid sequence of events in this case.
https://static.poder360.com.br/2023/04/decisao-telegram-grup...
Seção Judiciária do Espírito Santo 1ª Vara Federal de Linhares [...] assinado por WELLINGTON LOPES DA SILVA
That would be a first instance (trial) court, not any kind of appellate court. (Though in the Federal judiciary rather than the state judiciary.)
Re: Brazil judge orders temporary suspension of Telegram
#65I'm fairly certain it is deeply connected to Russia. People believe it's encrypted but it's not for group chats or default for direct chats. They have money when Telegram is expensive to run, not to mention they can easily threaten Durov's life. The Russian network block and letting people use Telegram again was the government squeezing their biggest source of users and income until they acquiesced.
> I'm fairly certain it is deeply connected to Russia. Just as Signal, Facebook, Google, WhatsApp are deeply connected to the USA? > People believe it's encrypted but it's not for group chats or default for direct chats. The cloud and E2EE encryption of Telegram have already been audited by independent researchers. > They have money when Telegram is expensive to run They literally raised money (a billion dollars) by…
The server side is still proprietary. They could have just given "dummied" source code to "independent researchers".
Chances are ALWAYS against regular people.
Re: Brazil judge orders temporary suspension of Telegram
#66Doesn't this sound like a dictatorship?
It doesn't, really. It's specifically because Telegram failed to deliver all the requested information on certain nazi propaganda spreader groups.
Re: Brazil judge orders temporary suspension of Telegram
#67Doesn't this sound like a dictatorship?
It doesn't, really. It's specifically because Telegram failed to deliver all the requested information on certain nazi propaganda spreader groups.
Who defined nazi propaganda spreader groups?
Who draws the line? First Nazi propaganda spreaders, then gay rights activists?
Sounds extremely dangerous to have this kind of centralized control.
Re: Brazil judge orders temporary suspension of Telegram
#68Earlier quoted context omitted.
Last year when something like this happened, it came out that there's a legal representative in Rio: https://www1.folha.uol.com.br/internacional/en/brazil/2022/0...
So they can talk to the representatives. They cannot make them remove the app.
Can't they also throw the representative in jail (etc)?
Re: Brazil judge orders temporary suspension of Telegram
#69Re: Brazil judge orders temporary suspension of Telegram
#70Doesn't this sound like a dictatorship?
Taken case by case, no. The absolute majority of those cases are used to get ISPs to block pirate streaming sites, or sites selling personal data.
However, once every few years, a high profile case suspending something like Whatsapp, Youtube, LinkedIn or Facebook appears. They are usually thrown out of appeals court so fast there's no time for the block order to actually reach the ISPs.
The ones that actually do result in a block have a police investigation behind it, making the whole bureaucracy more slow as there needs to be some back and forth between the police and the company. The fact that Telegram's entire team in Brazil is one lawyer might make this worse.
For example, this particular incident may have come from a misunderstanding. The police asked for all available data on all users of a group chat called "Movimento Anti-Semita Brasileiro" and another with a similar name. I hope the translation should be obvious.
What did Telegram deliver? The requested data of the group admin, not all users.
So now they get blocked until they deliver all the data.
Source for this incident, that is, the legal order for the block: https://www.conjur.com.br/dl/telegram-decisao-suspensao.pdf