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Facebook Is Using You

nytimes.com

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Re: Facebook Is Using You

#61

Post by tedsuo »

The use of our data for purposes beyond advertizing is definitely a rapidly brewing storm. I already get emails from pretty looking web services offering sometimes dubious claims of magical insight, if only I send them a list of emails I want checked out. I expect the reach of those claims will only continue to broaden.

At the heart of the problem is that the sharing of data is assymetric, which will prevent market forces from weeding out services that don't put a premium on ensuring their data is even accurate, let alone whether their conclusions are sound. In other words, I have no idea who is sharing what about me, or how it is actually affecting the decisions being made around me. Employers, banks, etc, don't do a post game wrap up where they show you the data mining services they use, and what they say about you (relevant aside: when I get these data mining pitches emailed to me, where did they get my email, and why do they think I may be interested in these services? I have no way of knowing). I may be able to curate my facebook data, but I can't curate an augean stable of ever changing services that I don't even use, or know exist.

Re: Facebook Is Using You

#62

Post by Karunamon »

Craiggybear wrote: post #47
Karunamon wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>FB is an awful, monstrous growth on society. I can think of many things I'd apply that label to (Such as DHS, the republican party, ACTA), but applying that to a service that people voluntarily sign up and use is a bit absurd, don't you think? This just in: Advertising companies track people. Film at 11. It's possible to completely avoid facebook and their tracking with the most minimal of effort. I wonder when we'r…

No, its not. Its what they are doing with your responses to those things that are potentially or actually evil. The fact it requires any response on my part, minimal or not, is absurd and unacceptable. Don't you get that? I find this kind of response unfathomable.

>The fact it requires any response on my part, minimal or not, is absurd and unacceptable.

Cookies and ad-based tracking have been around for years. I find characterizing that behavior as "evil" is patently absurd.

So no, I don't "get" that. I don't see what you're so up in arms about.

Re: Facebook Is Using You

#63

Post by bootload »

pacala wrote: post #19
spodek wrote: post #4

This is what Freedombox is for (also Diaspora). Freedombox is one of the few projects I make time to contribute to. I'm surprised it isn't one of the more popular projects among this community. Anyway, here are some links and background if you aren't familiar with it. From http://freedomboxfoundation.org and http://freedomboxfoundation.org/learn What is FreedomBox? Email and telecommunications that protects privacy a…

I follow a few high profile tech news source, but I never heard of Freedombox. One major worry I have about decentralized systems is crackers. It's hard enough to secure centralized systems using proprietary code behind firewalls managed by an army of experts. How can a decentralized system possibly avoid becoming a 0day distributed botnet?

"... I follow a few high profile tech news source, but I never heard of Freedombox. ..."

That's why it's important to read HN.

Eben Moglen is one of the few lawyers I bother to listen too. It helps he has a CS background. Moglen did a talk at New York Technology Council & Internet Society, Friday, February 5, 2010 that outlined the idea behind the freedom box. I remember watching & listening to the recording just after the speech. It's worth the watch/listen to get the idea in full.

The idea in short, "Own your own logs". Third parties can't infer what they don't have. The talk is located here

- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpHWnHxmnXg

- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOEMv0S8AcA

or here for alternative AV formats ~ http://isoc-ny.org/?p=1338

Re: Facebook Is Using You

#64

Post by marquis »

meterplech wrote: post #24

I think this is a terrible headline that masks an interesting philosophical debate. Especially at this community, we feel we intuitively understand that we get the convenience and social value from Facebook for $0, and we pay in our personal data they use to serve up advertisements. That to me is hardly newsworthy and a relatively uninteresting piece. But- there is an interesting question in what is an appropriate us…

Maybe a little SciFi sounding but I can imagine in the near future there becoming a market for obscuring a person's search and online social behaviour results. With the proper attention paid to timing and location, it would be a fairly simple matter to blur realities between who a person is and what a program has randomly searched for: e.g. provide your login details to a program that spends the next couple of years inserting random data on your behalf.

Re: Facebook Is Using You

#65

Post by thomaslangston »

pacala wrote: post #39
thomaslangston wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's hard enough to secure centralized systems using proprietary code behind firewalls managed by an army of experts. How can a decentralized system possibly avoid becoming a 0day distributed botnet? I do not understand your concern. Centralized systems are easier to crack, not harder. Proprietary code may or may not be easier to crack, but I'd lean towards easier. Distributed systems do not require you to not have…

The point of Freedombox is that everyone has his data in his own home. If average Joe wants to share this data with his friends, average Joe is going to run a server in his home. If the server code has a 0day exploit, average Joe server easily becomes a node in a botnet. How do you address the problem of managing a fleet of 800 Million servers running in 800 Million homes? Who are the experts that manage this problem…

That may be the setup of that project, but it isn't the status of every decentralized system. A decentralized system could as easily be funded by individual users buying hosted space with professional admins.

I don't see the 0day exploit window of one additional application running on local users' boxes to be much cause for alarm. Somehow we muddled through decades of Windows boxes with everyone joining the Borg.

Re: Facebook Is Using You

#66

Post by greenyoda »

fidotron wrote: post #8

This is somewhat disingenuous given that the entire commercial media industry does this, it's just that they aren't quite so efficient. If you've not ever worked in the media it's easy to underestimate the lengths they go to to work out who is consuming what and how to better channel ads at the lucrative targets, or how astonishingly detailed their information actually is. Your cable provider is probably far more evi…

Not to mention that the NY Times (the publisher of this article) probably collects a lot of information about their on-line readers. They know what articles you've read, what ads you've clicked on, what comments you've left on their site, where you live (based on your IP address and/or your billing address), approximately what your income is (based on your ZIP code), and that you found this article through Hacker News. And if you're a paid subscriber, they know your real name.
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