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Block loses 20% of value as Hindenburg Research alleges fraud

finance.yahoo.com

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Re: Block loses 20% of value as Hindenburg Research alleges fraud

#61

Post by qeternity »

malermeister wrote: post #39
qeternity wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find these takes to be so disingenuous. The dollar is used in this manner in spite of legal and regulatory efforts. Bitcoin is used in this manner bc it was designed explicitly to be immune to these efforts. I respect people who believe money should be uncensorable. But at least own that view and the implications, instead of all of this fiat whataboutism.

> I respect people who believe money should be uncensorable. Why? That is just another way of saying moneyed interests should be above the rule of law. What could possibly be respectable about a view this odious?

Because I appreciate different viewpoints. I may not agree with you but I can respect your opinion. What I don’t respect is people who draw false equivalencies and try to wiggle out of the consequences of their views.

Re: Block loses 20% of value as Hindenburg Research alleges fraud

#62

Post by [deleted] »

Closi wrote: post #37
achow wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hidenburgh seems to have directly accused Block. Block has systematically taken advantage of the demographics it claims to be helping. The “magic” behind Block’s business has not been disruptive innovation, but rather the company’s willingness to facilitate fraud against consumers and the government, avoid regulation, dress up predatory loans and fees as revolutionary technology, and mislead investors with inflated m…

Facilitating fraud != committing fraud Most banks and payment platforms will facilitate fraud to some extent, but it’s their duty to reduce this with compliance procedures.

[deleted]

Re: Block loses 20% of value as Hindenburg Research alleges fraud

#63

Post by hindsightbias »

pavlov wrote: post #19
phnofive wrote: post #11

> Dorsey [...] told investors about the large number of songs named after Cash App and described how music had become a way to share with others how valuable the app is to them personally, providing them with “so much utility.” > A review of songs mentioning Cash App shows that the artists are not generally rapping about Cash App’s smooth user interface and robust software integration toolkit. > Instead, lyrics descr…

Dorsey is a big Bitcoin fan, so that’s the kind of utility he appreciates. Coming soon: the CashApp ransomware API.

As long as it can be bundled with FDIC++ Insurance.

Re: Block loses 20% of value as Hindenburg Research alleges fraud

#64

Post by qeternity »

peyton wrote: post #46
malermeister wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I respect people who believe money should be uncensorable. Why? That is just another way of saying moneyed interests should be above the rule of law. What could possibly be respectable about a view this odious?

I don’t think Chase freezing your account and refusing to tell you why counts as rule of law. I don’t see what’s so odious about coming up with a solution to move money that doesn’t involve financial institutions.

Sure, but that’s a problem with a specific bank, not a problem with fiat currency.

Re: Block loses 20% of value as Hindenburg Research alleges fraud

#65

Post by Kbelicius »

throw239849234 wrote: post #31
KingOfCoders wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would be interested in the percentage of 1. Bitcoin (crypto) users who (only) have BC because they hate fiat money 2. Users who have BC because they need it for illegal gains 3. Opportunistic investors 4. Web3ers I have the unsubstantiated feeling that 1 is overstated.

5. People for whom fiat money is impractical for one or more reasons This category is way larger than people in well-banked Western circles realise. Bitcoin (crypto) is one of the easiest ways for people affected by capital controls or sanctions (on the financial institutions they use, or the country they were unlucky enough to be born in) to freely move their (legally earned, and taxed) money across borders. Since o…

The idea that some cryptocoin is used by some large but unseen group of people is often talked about but nobody presents the data that show that this group really exists. Is there some real data that shows that this large group actually exists or is it all speculation?

Re: Block loses 20% of value as Hindenburg Research alleges fraud

#66

Post by astrange »

jhugo wrote: post #42
nikanj wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Credit Suisse was too big to fail just a month ago

And indeed the government forced a merger with UBS, reaffirming that they were too big to fail.

"Too big to fail" means the regulators tell you what to do /all the time/, not just after you've failed.

You don't want to be too big to fail! There's a lot of businesses only small banks can do, like backing sweep accounts and neobanks like Simple/Aspiration.

Re: Block loses 20% of value as Hindenburg Research alleges fraud

#67

Post by jevgeni »

peyton wrote: post #46
malermeister wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I respect people who believe money should be uncensorable. Why? That is just another way of saying moneyed interests should be above the rule of law. What could possibly be respectable about a view this odious?

I don’t think Chase freezing your account and refusing to tell you why counts as rule of law. I don’t see what’s so odious about coming up with a solution to move money that doesn’t involve financial institutions.

Solving bad customer service by creating a part of the economy meant to be outside of any accountability is a bad idea.

Re: Block loses 20% of value as Hindenburg Research alleges fraud

#68

Post by jevgeni »

regulators wrote: post #48

Venmo has massive fraud too. I knew drug dealers in 2017 in San Francisco who openly sold marijuana, cocaine and other drugs via Venmo. Tens of thousands in transactions every 2-months. Hindenburg criticized the ability for a user to get a debit card by mail in any name but that is a form of KYC. It is true many companies including PayPal don’t force you to provide your social security number. But the user can still…

> Hindenburg criticized the ability for a user to get a debit card by mail in any name but that is a form of KYC.

Not sure I understood you correctly, but this is the opposite of KYC.

Re: Block loses 20% of value as Hindenburg Research alleges fraud

#69

Post by astrange »

posharma wrote: post #34

I know this is going to be controversial, but I think it has to be said. Jack ruined Twitter first [1] (by over-hiring and then selling it to Elon) and now it's Block's turn. He still made billions, while thousands got laid off and are still suffering under Elon's questionable so called leadership. Are these the entrepreneurs we should be looking up to? The tech industry is already facing the brunt because of the mis…

Parag sold to Elon, and he got a great return for shareholders by selling at far above market value.

Jack doesn't do anything but meditate and grow a beard like he's young Steve Jobs. Why the board let him be CEO when he didn't do any apparent work is a different question.

Re: Block loses 20% of value as Hindenburg Research alleges fraud

#70

Post by meltedcapacitor »

KingOfCoders wrote: post #23
Bilal_io wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Dorsey is a big Bitcoin fan, so that’s the kind of utility he appreciates. This sounds disingenuous. Not every fan of Bitcoin supports fraud, drug trafficking.. etc. The dollar is used for such bad activities, should we label everyone that loves the dollar as a supporter of fraud and drugs?

I would be interested in the percentage of 1. Bitcoin (crypto) users who (only) have BC because they hate fiat money 2. Users who have BC because they need it for illegal gains 3. Opportunistic investors 4. Web3ers I have the unsubstantiated feeling that 1 is overstated.

All these categories are like about 5% each, the 80% is normal hard working people who don't like hard working — it is literally hard work! — and to whom crypto gives hope as a magic box in which one throws pennies and dollars come back. It's a bit creepy (the game is in fact zero/negative sum) but then gambling is not generally illegal.
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