Facebook Timeline is too awful to be an accident • Hacker News Board

Re: Facebook Timeline is too awful to be an accident

#61

Post by ryanmolden » Wed, Jan 18, 2012, 6:55 PM UTC

jgw wrote: post #27

"the smartest people in the world are working hard to come up with ways to get you to click on ads.” Does anyone know what quote he's alluding to here? I recall skimming an article on it some time ago, but I can't actually find the original. I've been thinking about this trend - and, quite frankly, being depressed by it - a lot recently.

>"the smartest people in the world are working hard to come up with ways to get you to click on ads.”

I always chuckle at thoughts like this. If we want to rank on a scale of intellect it isn't clear that simply being a Google/Facebook/ employee puts you in the 'smartest in the world' bucket.

There are PLENTY of people that aren't software engineers that are likely much smarter than anyone at any of these companies, unless we are to say that you can't be smart unless you are a software engineer, which seems silly.

It is in the same bucket with the clearly false 'we only hire the smartest people in the world' meme, also trumpeted by a lot of tech companies.

Re: Facebook Timeline is too awful to be an accident

#62

Post by drenei » Wed, Jan 18, 2012, 7:06 PM UTC

Kahneman and his research is fascinating. Vanity Fair had an short article that serves as a goodish introduction to him that is worth a quick read. (http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/features/2011/12/michael-l...)

Re: Facebook Timeline is too awful to be an accident

#63

Post by bmahmood » Wed, Jan 18, 2012, 7:09 PM UTC

stevecooperorg wrote: post #15

gonehome wrote: post #2

Seems to me the much more likely scenario is that Timeline was created to give a better (and prettier) interface for users to access the information posted to facebook - not some kind of secret psychological advertising conspiracy.

The new timeline is why I quit FaceBook in December. It creates a badly jumbled view of the information I was really hoping to see -- what's going on with me and my friends? I can handle a straight chronological list very easily. This is an interesting answer to the question 'why didn't they stick with the simplest approach?'

Agreed. I find it visually frustrating to read two columns simultaneously (going back/forth from left/right sides of the timeline). It's so cluttered I don't ever find myself visiting my own profile anymore.

About the only thing I use FB now for is the feed, but then Twitter serves the same function w/ better control over who I want to follow.

Re: Facebook Timeline is too awful to be an accident

#64

Post by dkarl » Wed, Jan 18, 2012, 7:10 PM UTC

JonnieCache wrote: post #50

gonehome wrote: post #2

Seems to me the much more likely scenario is that Timeline was created to give a better (and prettier) interface for users to access the information posted to facebook - not some kind of secret psychological advertising conspiracy.

Surely the entire of facebook constitutes one big "secret psychological advertising conspiracy." That sounds like a perfect description to me, if you discount the alarmist, x-files connotations of "conspiracy." Neuromarketing is a pretty standard practice now, I don't think any of this is controversial.

I agree. I can't see how anyone would imagine that Facebook aren't working hard at their job, which is, in fact, delivering ads and making people click on them. Or that all that investment is spent paying smart people to have fun and sow the seeds of happiness worldwide, and every once in a while pay a little attention to the business model as an afterthought.

I would really, really appreciate it if someone could explain to me why we ever applied the term "conspiracy theory" to the common-sense assumption that a for-profit company's business decisions are motivated by (gasp, shock) profit.

Re: Facebook Timeline is too awful to be an accident

#65

Post by dreamdu5t » Wed, Jan 18, 2012, 7:13 PM UTC

Effective? I doubt it. I haven't clicked a single ad or promotional item in FB, after using it for years.

I click on Google ads at least a couple times a month, because they tend to be relevant to what I'm looking for at the moment.

Re: Facebook Timeline is too awful to be an accident

#66

Post by thejteam » Wed, Jan 18, 2012, 7:18 PM UTC

Jimmy wrote: post #8

gonehome wrote: post #2

Seems to me the much more likely scenario is that Timeline was created to give a better (and prettier) interface for users to access the information posted to facebook - not some kind of secret psychological advertising conspiracy.

But it's not a better and prettier interface. It's just awful. Granted, the only ads that appear on a Timeline page are in a narrow column off to the side (I didn't even know there were any ads until I specifically checked for them after reading this article), so I'm not sure how valid this conspiracy theory is. But it doesn't change the fact that Timeline looks horrible.

My thought when I first saw it: This is what a Fischer Price "My first Website" would look like.

Re: Facebook Timeline is too awful to be an accident

#67

Post by jeffdechambeau » Wed, Jan 18, 2012, 7:18 PM UTC

Whoops, ran out of bandwidth. Called my host and should be back online in a second.

Re: Facebook Timeline is too awful to be an accident

#68

Post by adamio » Wed, Jan 18, 2012, 7:18 PM UTC

DevX101 wrote: post #43

gonehome wrote: post #2

Seems to me the much more likely scenario is that Timeline was created to give a better (and prettier) interface for users to access the information posted to facebook - not some kind of secret psychological advertising conspiracy.

It's hard to say what facebook's intentions here without inside knowledge, but I wouldn't discount it. The founder of modern propaganda and advertising, Edward Bernays, performed many extremely subtle experiments that had dramatic shifts in how Americans behave to this day. (By the way, Bernays coined the phrase 'public relations' to replace 'propaganda' after it had been co-opted by the Nazis). He got women to smoke…

Google spends dollars to increase the relevance of advertising. Relevance is a means to effectiveness. Some of Google's most effective ads are relevant, text only, in the margins of pages. Propaganda and changing behaviors is a leap away from ad placement and layout online.

Re: Facebook Timeline is too awful to be an accident

#69

Post by jgw » Wed, Jan 18, 2012, 7:19 PM UTC

ryanmolden wrote: post #61

jgw wrote: post #27

"the smartest people in the world are working hard to come up with ways to get you to click on ads.” Does anyone know what quote he's alluding to here? I recall skimming an article on it some time ago, but I can't actually find the original. I've been thinking about this trend - and, quite frankly, being depressed by it - a lot recently.

>"the smartest people in the world are working hard to come up with ways to get you to click on ads.” I always chuckle at thoughts like this. If we want to rank on a scale of intellect it isn't clear that simply being a Google/Facebook/ employee puts you in the 'smartest in the world' bucket. There are PLENTY of people that aren't software engineers that are likely much smarter than anyone at any of these companies,…

Quite so.

But "s/world/high tech/g" (and maybe "s/smartest/some of the smartest/g") and the broader point still stands, even without the hyperbole: lots and lots of very smart people are channelling their efforts into getting people to click on ads.

Re: Facebook Timeline is too awful to be an accident

#70

Post by k-mcgrady » Wed, Jan 18, 2012, 7:19 PM UTC

tylermenezes wrote: post #41

gonehome wrote: post #2

Seems to me the much more likely scenario is that Timeline was created to give a better (and prettier) interface for users to access the information posted to facebook - not some kind of secret psychological advertising conspiracy.

I'm pretty sure someone actually just saw Path and thought "that's kind of cool". (And then decided to implement it only on the web and not on the mobile.)

Path came after Timeline.