Live data from Hacker News

Kids and music lessons: why do many promising players quit early?

thewalrus.ca

61–70 of 260 posts

Re: Kids and music lessons: why do many promising players quit early?

#61

I've been teaching beginning guitar lessons for about seven years. Guitar is a little different in that, outside of classical guitar, there's very little traditional pedagogy, but from experience I think these things are generally true about most instruments. 1. When you start learning you sound terrible... for a long time. It's very difficult to stay motivated when you can hear your problems. 2. It's very difficult…

100% agree. You need something motivating to push through the wall of sucking. And it can fluctuate throughout life.

I was a drummer. I was first attracted to the status of it - it was the only instrument in our school band that you needed to try out for. I didn't make the first cut, so I got lessons, then I made it next year. I kept the lessons for a while, but at some point I got bored and stopped lessons - there were only so many paradiddle variations I wanted to learn. There was no vision for me anymore.

Then, I got into rock music and thought that looked awesome, and I had a burst of new motivation that lasted for several years through college.

Then I accepted I wasn't going to be a famous rock drummer (or at least, the opportunity cost vs other things was no longer looking worth it), and shifted my time toward other things in life.

I like the idea of trying a different instrument. I know I would suck for a while so I haven't committed to it. Maybe when my kid gets older that would provide more motivation to bond with him.

Re: Kids and music lessons: why do many promising players quit early?

#62

I've been teaching beginning guitar lessons for about seven years. Guitar is a little different in that, outside of classical guitar, there's very little traditional pedagogy, but from experience I think these things are generally true about most instruments. 1. When you start learning you sound terrible... for a long time. It's very difficult to stay motivated when you can hear your problems. 2. It's very difficult…

As a guitar player for over 30 years now, it's fascinating how quickly you can teach something like Smoke on the Water or Whole Lotta Love in the span of a few minutes to someone who has never picked up the instrument... sure the timing/fretting is off but it's close enough that their face will light up. To underscore your overall point, I took lessons in 2 phases: 1) At 10 years old, had a cheap classical guitar. Di…

Do you appreciate those 8 lessons from where you were 10? In a way, you'd played guitar for 5 years when you strolled into that Guitar Center and started noodling.

Re: Kids and music lessons: why do many promising players quit early?

#63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can relate a lot to what you said. I practice piano (jazz improvisation), and I have mix of love and hate with practicing. You basically spent lots of energy for little to no improvement at all lol, playing scales, arpeggios, etc. And if you stay like 1 month without practicing you waste a lot of time trying to go back where you stopped. It's like trying to go up an escalator that's going down, if you stop you come…

Having recently picked-up the guitar after a 10 years hiatus, that escalator analogy hit me right in the feels :'D

You do go back down to 0, but you can run up that escalator pretty damn fast

Re: Kids and music lessons: why do many promising players quit early?

#64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a guitar player for over 30 years now, it's fascinating how quickly you can teach something like Smoke on the Water or Whole Lotta Love in the span of a few minutes to someone who has never picked up the instrument... sure the timing/fretting is off but it's close enough that their face will light up. To underscore your overall point, I took lessons in 2 phases: 1) At 10 years old, had a cheap classical guitar. Di…

Do you appreciate those 8 lessons from where you were 10? In a way, you'd played guitar for 5 years when you strolled into that Guitar Center and started noodling.

Unfortunately I didn't touch the guitar again until picking up that mag, so it was all lost, including my nascent ability to read music.

Re: Kids and music lessons: why do many promising players quit early?

#65
> The final piece I learned with any aplomb was Mozart’s Violin Concerto no. 3 in G Major with a Sam Franko cadenza. The cadenza was a little beyond me: the fingering too tricky, my apathy too high. Playing it was like trying to grasp something just out of reach; with the next stretch, my ligaments would tear and bones would pop out of their sockets. This caused my teacher, my mother, and me angst in no small measure.

Mozart 3 is the first Mozart many violin students study, and this is where a lot of my violin mates quit, too. The problem---apart from the general problem with violin education---is that Mozart requires too much maturity in musicality. There's a reason major violin competitions usually require a Mozart piece at certain rounds, despite the relatively low technical difficulty compared with Romantic concertos or show pieces. The transparency of Mozart is a true test on how well a player understand the music, know how to phrase, and express themselves in an interesting but not peculiar way. A technically well-played Mozart can still sound like monotonous misery if the player doesn't have the ability to interpret it. So, it really only works for goal-oriented students (I've gotta win this competition), and is a chore for a lot of other students.

(And I say this as a big fan of Mozart's music)

---

I wasn't a Suzuki kid, but a thing that I felt really envious about, is that a proper Suzuki method encourages playing with your peers to a degree. A Suzuki teacher is supposed to arrange duets, recitals, etc., and it is just much more fun to play with and for your friends, instead of the guy in the mirror.

---

I'd like to point out that most of us don't retain every single hobby we attempted as a child. It is a natural outcome of growth, where we understand ourselves better, and learn to achieve happiness in a more strategic manner. I've seen questions by teenagers on violin forums, of such a kind: "I'm entering med school, and I'll be too busy to practice the violin. What should I do?" And just like some wise teachers pointed out, it's easier to be a doctor and an amateur violinist, than the other way around, so focus on your study first, and pick up the violin later when your life is less stressful.

It's fine to give up, for a while, or forever, or replace it with something else. There are many paths towards music, some are much easier or cheaper than others, and even music itself is not the only path to happiness anyway.

We all want to have unlimited time and have mastered all the skills in the world, but we don't have unlimited time, and most of the road to mastery is too long and too hard. It's worth it to sit down with yourself and ask whether this is something you really want, or is it merely the avoidance of cutting a sunken cost.

Re: Kids and music lessons: why do many promising players quit early?

#66

I've been teaching beginning guitar lessons for about seven years. Guitar is a little different in that, outside of classical guitar, there's very little traditional pedagogy, but from experience I think these things are generally true about most instruments. 1. When you start learning you sound terrible... for a long time. It's very difficult to stay motivated when you can hear your problems. 2. It's very difficult…

I've found it surprisingly low effort to get good enough at guitar and, in fact, piano, that you can start to see social rewards, i.e. people actually want you to play, at least a little. Meanwhile I put in more hours and had far more formal instruction at a woodwind than either of those combined and... yeah, nobody wanted to hear that shit, it sounds awful (cringe-inducing, even) unless you're excellent . Years of e…

I am thinking of learning guitar/piano at some point for exactly that reason - a little effort, have some fun and get some social recognition!

Re: Kids and music lessons: why do many promising players quit early?

#67
I started learning to play the piano and training in Tae Kwon Do at around the same age. There's a similarity in both skills, in that you need to practice all the time, learn the drills; be they scales and playing Baa Baa Black Sheep, or Poomsae and running through three step sparing.

Today I'd struggle to find middle C on a keyboard, but I do run my own Freestyle Martial Arts club. The difference was not parental pressure. Mum made me go to both classes, and made me practice both piano and martial arts at home. I hated doing both. I would feign illness or injury not to go.

My TKD instructor was nothing short of inspiring though. He was an Olympic coach and really put effort into training me. My piano teacher pulled my mum aside after a lesson, before I'd even gone for grade one, and told her that he saw no hope in me, and that she should stop lessons.

I don't really know what I'm trying to say here other than my instructors faith in me had more of an influence than any particular pedagogical approach.

Re: Kids and music lessons: why do many promising players quit early?

#68
I played trumpet, baritone, and tuba from elementary through high school. Learning how to play well was a grind for years and I didn't really start to enjoy it until I reached high school and was a part of a good ensemble.

It's definitely not fun when you and everyone around you is bad. Having a horrible teacher for a few years along the way didn't help either and drove most of my classmates to quit.

I do miss it and part of me wishes I had continued in college because I would have really enjoyed the challenge. But I was tired of "band cliques" and wanted to move on.

Re: Kids and music lessons: why do many promising players quit early?

#69
post #13

As someone who runs a music label, ans has been doing this since 1999, it's not worth it to invest heavily into music. The people that make money in the industry, aren't the people that play the instruments. It's a long gone dream of just making music that has turned into payola, social media corruption, fake audiences, and negative things like drug abuse, lip syncing, fraud, suicide and ghost writers. Don't wish it…

The more I practice, the more enjoyment I get out of playing. TBH, it never occurred to me to seek financial gain from it.

Same. I've played guitar for 22 years (mainly steel string acoustic), but last year started learning classical and I cannot get enough of it, even though I'm pretty shit at it. It's so much fun to learn, even though no one will ever hear it.
Post reply on HN