However, I do think the real problem is when accounts that have high status (like a blue check? posts that appear on trending tab? posts that are sponsored?) engage Twitter dishonestly. If there's a technical solution to this, that's where you start. It's hard to prove dishonesty at first blush, but when there's a pattern of behavior similar to what you're describing, it becomes more clear.
Tell HN: The issues of Twitter are not a technical problem to solve
61–70 of 279 posts
Re: Tell HN: The issues of Twitter are not a technical problem to solve
#62I used to agree with you until I created a new Twitter account from scratch. I'm not American and I specifically put non-political things in my interests. Yet, the second I signed up I got the following: 1. A notification about a smug reply a rando made to a Republican Congressman. 2. Posts from a meme page with a Pepe the frog avatar showing homeless people fighting in San Francisco. 3. Somebody I don't follow accus…
Here's the uncomfortable question though, can a social media platform achieve sufficient scale, so its more useful for discoverability than your group chats, without optimizing for engagement? Discord is a happy medium (just, really large group chats).
Re: Tell HN: The issues of Twitter are not a technical problem to solve
#63Until not that long ago I was a pretty happy Twitter user. I curated my follows (keeping them between 150 and 200), only followed people posting interesting , creative , or scientific things. When anyone started tweeting or retweeting low quality material, I simply unfollowed. Unfortunately, the devs at Twitter hate the way I use it. Nowadays ever 5th post or so on my timeline is from someone I do not follow, either…
Do you use the time based fed or the default timeline feed? I use only the time based feed, and I read on my tablet zoomed into the middle third of the screen so I don’t really see trending or whatever. I do follow a lot more people than you, but I agree when that is all you see, it is like a allow listed Reddit, pretty easy to make an interest and entertaining content feed.
Re: Tell HN: The issues of Twitter are not a technical problem to solve
#64Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I just want a spot I can keep tabs on the broader goings on of other people in infosec. I think this is the problem Twitter/Musk has - Twitter isn't one product but a million. Just about every user has their own way of using Twitter - from finding out about what's goings on in some niche (work, sport, hobby), seeing what celebrities are doing, asking their community questions, discussing politics, finding out news,…
The other problem is that the majority of advertisers don't want to spend their ad dollars on a platform full of people spamming various racial slurs. If that's what happens as a result of Twitter's changes in policies, and there's a flight of advertisers, I'm not sure what end result there is for Twitter except hemorrhaging money for Musk until he shuts it down.
If you see a video posted like that, what do you expect to see? Thoughtful social commentary about marginalized peoples of our urban ghettoes?
Twitter is so much more than the above. To me it, seems like the charge of "racial slurs" is itself a kind of defamation.
There have always been dark corners of the Internet. Twitter's dark corners are so easily avoided, and a fraction of the traffic on the platform, as far as I can tell. Is there actually any data allowing people to make sense of it all, as opposed to allowing them to make a biased argument?
Re: Tell HN: The issues of Twitter are not a technical problem to solve
#65Until not that long ago I was a pretty happy Twitter user. I curated my follows (keeping them between 150 and 200), only followed people posting interesting , creative , or scientific things. When anyone started tweeting or retweeting low quality material, I simply unfollowed. Unfortunately, the devs at Twitter hate the way I use it. Nowadays ever 5th post or so on my timeline is from someone I do not follow, either…
Re: Tell HN: The issues of Twitter are not a technical problem to solve
#66Earlier quoted context omitted.
Here's the uncomfortable question though, can a social media platform achieve sufficient scale, so its more useful for discoverability than your group chats, without optimizing for engagement? Discord is a happy medium (just, really large group chats).
Discord is actually a good example: I think I got 0 notifications about groups I don't follow, so isn't as big of an incentive to aggressively smugpost as in Twitter.
I get on average about 1 a day, something about "pumps" (whatever that is)
Re: Tell HN: The issues of Twitter are not a technical problem to solve
#67I used to agree with you until I created a new Twitter account from scratch. I'm not American and I specifically put non-political things in my interests. Yet, the second I signed up I got the following: 1. A notification about a smug reply a rando made to a Republican Congressman. 2. Posts from a meme page with a Pepe the frog avatar showing homeless people fighting in San Francisco. 3. Somebody I don't follow accus…
Re: Tell HN: The issues of Twitter are not a technical problem to solve
#68Twitter is essentially a marketing machine / popularity contest hybrid.
There are no barriers to publishing something on twitter:
- you don't have to be correct.
- you don't have to ellaborate your claims (In fact, you specifically cant - the space is limited enough to disallow it)
- you don't have to provide any references to your claims, and you can easily post screenshots or images from other sources without referencing and frame them in whatever light you wish.
There are even fewer limits to boosting something by retweeting it. You don't even have to read it, and "want to read the article first" sounds like a joke precisely because the rest of the platform never really cared about that.
By themselves, the above properties would not be that big of a deal. However, the retweet mechanic essentially creates an evolutionary environment for ideas. Tweets essentially become brain viruses. Their goal is to replicate by retweeting i.e. by causing a human to click the retweet button on them.
The environment formed by twitter itself as a platform, as well as its users, essentially "decides" which "viruses" are more fit to replicate and which ones aren't.
Now the question is how much of this is twitter's fault and how much is the environment?
Sure, humans can take some of the blame. Humans are faulty and fragile and prone to biases / getting triggered / reacting emotionally. But that's precisely why we build things - to compensate for our faults. You could easily imagine alternative systems which instead of being optimized for marketing (often an exercise in bending the truth as much as possible in a way that benefits someone), are optimized for something else:
- retweeting something could require you to check the references and ensure things are correct - the character limit is inverted i.e. humans will need to write - every post is peer reviewed; some basics are automatically checked (e.g. the presence of references)
Or, we could simply get rid of the exponential aspect. Reddit suffers from some of the same flaws, for example, but they're less pronounced - because its more of a linear rather than an exponential environment where best voted things surface to similar number of people (followers of the subreddit).
Its this extreme environment with exponential properties (https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.aap9559) which makes us feel like "all of twitter" sucks and people suck. It doesn't really, but we don't get to see the parts that don't, because they have orders of magnitude less spread - the environment is extremely harsh to things not optimized for it.
I actually have many examples of scientists posting throughly checked studies posting one "interesting" (but poorly done) study involving animals which they didn't think much of, and that study getting 2-3 orders of magnitude more tweets than the rest of their material (because it looks novel), thereby defining most people's perception of them. Some find it embarassing, others that are after the attention more than they're after the science decide to go the dark path or get surrounded by followers that feed their delusion.
Humans are flawed, yes... but we could do so much better.
Re: Tell HN: The issues of Twitter are not a technical problem to solve
#69The problem is that Twitter is designed with revenue in mind. Revenue requires the user use the product, ideally as much as possible, and the best way to do that is turn Twitter into a perpetual outrage machine where the loudest, most ridiculous voices get the attention because they inspire the most reaction.
This is why Michael Tracey is so popular there. Nobody actually likes him; he exists to cause outrage and gets promoted by the Twitter algo precisely because of that. Outrage is attention, and attention is what Twitter wants, for revenue.
Re: Tell HN: The issues of Twitter are not a technical problem to solve
#70I agree fully. The problem is that Twitter is designed with revenue in mind. Revenue requires the user use the product, ideally as much as possible, and the best way to do that is turn Twitter into a perpetual outrage machine where the loudest, most ridiculous voices get the attention because they inspire the most reaction. This is why Michael Tracey is so popular there. Nobody actually likes him; he exists to cause…
Twitter is a cesspool and will always be so