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Psychedelic drugs take on depression

nature.com

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Re: Psychedelic drugs take on depression

#61

Post by jokoon »

tasty_freeze wrote: post #56

There are many personal anecdotes about how one treatment was a game changer. I don't doubt them, but as the article says, it doesn't work for everyone. I am posting this as a counterweight to all the glowing reports. My wife has some chronic health conditions (EDS and ME/CFS and depression); I'm sure they are at least partially related. While ramping off of one antidepressant in anticipation of trying something diff…

if it's so dependent on the environment, then the drug just doesn't work in general, meaning it's not viable.

if doctors are unable to find ways to make a drug work and predict it, then it's pointless.

A 4 days vacation every month will have better results, and it's something most therapists and psychiatrist also say, that lifestyle matters.

If a drug cannot do better than lifestyle change, then the drug doesn't work.

Re: Psychedelic drugs take on depression

#62

Post by gratitoad »

staticassertion wrote: post #16
whiskyagogo wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It replaced my lifelong fear (terror?) of death with what I can honestly say is now curiosity. You can experience only so many deaths in your mind before you learn to be comfortable with the idea.

That sounds frightening. What do yo mean by 'experience only so many deaths' ?

At times I’ve become convinced that all of experienced reality is narrowing to a point and about to wink into nothingness, and myself along with it. It’s hard to explain, but it’s very convincing at the time. So as I experienced this sort of unraveling of the universe I have to confront the idea of my own non-being. Until I come out of it and realize it was all in my head :) Even my early, terrified experiences felt like therapy, like the pain was well spent, so to speak.

Re: Psychedelic drugs take on depression

#63

Post by nibbleshifter »

krrrh wrote: post #57
FollowingTheDao wrote: post #2

They should not be lumping ketamine in with all the other psychedelics which act on the serotonin 2A receptor. I’m hesitant to say ketamine is a psychedelic at all. Regardless, I find .25 mg of Klonopin can get rid of my depression as well, they’ve known for a long time that depression has a strong linked glutamate excitation in certain parts of the brain.

Amongst psychedelic therapists it’s pretty normal to include Ketamine under the rubric of psychedelics these days, even though receptor purists might still object. Same is true of MDMA. From a subjective experience there’s no doubt that it’s different, but at psychedelic dose ranges most psychonauts will characterize it is a psychedelic experience, and ketamine can produce experiences every bit as weird and life alte…

Higher (recreational) doses of ketamine can induce extremely interesting states that I would definitely classify as "psychedelic" in effect.

It is an interesting drug.

There are also subjectively different effects between racemic ketamine and pure S-ketamine. I have never been able to try pure R-ketamine, it just doesn't seem to be available.

Re: Psychedelic drugs take on depression

#64

Post by renewiltord »

jahnu wrote: post #9

The frequency of these kind of posts followed by anecdotes about how it worked for the commenter (who I believe btw) makes me a little uneasy. Somewhere buried in the discussion eventually is a comment from a relevant professional urging caution in interpreting and reacting to these news reports and anecdotes. Now with something as serious as this I would not at all object to such cautions being placed a bit more pro…

Honestly, I find HN's obsession with "professionals" annoying. For long-tail conditions, the professionals are frequently far less informed than fellow sufferers.

During the beginning of the pandemic, people on HN were telling us that N95 masks do nothing without official fit training. Bro, official fit training is something you can easily sub with a free video from 3M's website. It's this hopeless obsession with "official" and "professional" and shit like that when any reasonably intelligent individual can work through stuff themselves.

Re: Psychedelic drugs take on depression

#65

Post by mathgladiator »

FollowingTheDao wrote: post #47
mathgladiator wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Been there, and I just did a booster. I'm now very happy as I plug along on my project without any negative judgement: https://www.adama-platform.com/2022/07/02/the-path-of-the-mo... I'm doing silly things for silly reasons, and I've never been this happy and at peace. It let me heal from the moral injury of working in big tech for a decade.

I am in no way diagnosing, but I have Bipolar Disorder, so did my mother and my brother. I say things like this which you wrote when I am hypomanic/manic: "As I reflect on this, I’ve concluded that I exist with the divine purpose of bringing beauty into the world. Beauty and elegance require tremendous suffering because having taste is expensive." It is kind of typical of the condition. I know nothing I saw will conv…

That's fair, and there is context I intend to talk about more in a couple of future posts. I left my big tech job as a E8 (senior principal-ish) as I just got so bored.

I retired from big tech, but it wasn't until ketamine until I could reset to a new baseline and be truly grateful for my present state. Now, I do what I want when I want and the spiritual experience helps me be ok with doing my Thang without too much judgement.

I work on my platform, and I recently started to paint.

Re: Psychedelic drugs take on depression

#66

Post by mathgladiator »

birdyrooster wrote: post #29
mathgladiator wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Been there, and I just did a booster. I'm now very happy as I plug along on my project without any negative judgement: https://www.adama-platform.com/2022/07/02/the-path-of-the-mo... I'm doing silly things for silly reasons, and I've never been this happy and at peace. It let me heal from the moral injury of working in big tech for a decade.

What is your moral injury? I admit I have guilt from working in big tech too, but how did it affect your mental health?

I worked at Meta, and I'm not woke.

I have more to write on this, but I was able to grind as I had interesting work. I got bored even as an E8, and I squeezed the last potential out as I mentored and helped others grew.

Re: Psychedelic drugs take on depression

#67

Post by andrewxdiamond »

jokoon wrote: post #61
tasty_freeze wrote: post #56

There are many personal anecdotes about how one treatment was a game changer. I don't doubt them, but as the article says, it doesn't work for everyone. I am posting this as a counterweight to all the glowing reports. My wife has some chronic health conditions (EDS and ME/CFS and depression); I'm sure they are at least partially related. While ramping off of one antidepressant in anticipation of trying something diff…

if it's so dependent on the environment, then the drug just doesn't work in general, meaning it's not viable. if doctors are unable to find ways to make a drug work and predict it, then it's pointless. A 4 days vacation every month will have better results, and it's something most therapists and psychiatrist also say, that lifestyle matters. If a drug cannot do better than lifestyle change, then the drug doesn't work…

I think you’re oversimplifying the human brain a bit here. The point of psychedelic therapy is to forcibly reset your cognition.

It is very much like turning your brain off and on again.

Therapy tries to change your perspective, but the therapist has to go through your conscious mind to reshape your subconscious.

Psychedelics go around the conscious part, directly flooding your mind with thoughts and forcing you to redo your perspective from the ground up. This is more uncontrolled than therapy, but sometimes the conscious barrier is too strong.

I’m no doctor though, just a person with some perspective

Re: Psychedelic drugs take on depression

#68

Post by staticassertion »

gratitoad wrote: post #62
staticassertion wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds frightening. What do yo mean by 'experience only so many deaths' ?

At times I’ve become convinced that all of experienced reality is narrowing to a point and about to wink into nothingness, and myself along with it. It’s hard to explain, but it’s very convincing at the time. So as I experienced this sort of unraveling of the universe I have to confront the idea of my own non-being. Until I come out of it and realize it was all in my head :) Even my early, terrified experiences felt…

Sure, I was just curious. So essentially throughout the experience you felt as if things were sort of 'narrowing' and, inevitably, you would too. And with this repeating over and over again it forced you to confront and eventually move beyond a fear of death?

Re: Psychedelic drugs take on depression

#69

Post by potsandpans »

jokoon wrote: post #61
tasty_freeze wrote: post #56

There are many personal anecdotes about how one treatment was a game changer. I don't doubt them, but as the article says, it doesn't work for everyone. I am posting this as a counterweight to all the glowing reports. My wife has some chronic health conditions (EDS and ME/CFS and depression); I'm sure they are at least partially related. While ramping off of one antidepressant in anticipation of trying something diff…

if it's so dependent on the environment, then the drug just doesn't work in general, meaning it's not viable. if doctors are unable to find ways to make a drug work and predict it, then it's pointless. A 4 days vacation every month will have better results, and it's something most therapists and psychiatrist also say, that lifestyle matters. If a drug cannot do better than lifestyle change, then the drug doesn't work…

ah, interesting. So you have a medically qualified background to back up those claims?

Re: Psychedelic drugs take on depression

#70

Post by alexvoda »

akuro wrote: post #21
jahnu wrote: post #9

The frequency of these kind of posts followed by anecdotes about how it worked for the commenter (who I believe btw) makes me a little uneasy. Somewhere buried in the discussion eventually is a comment from a relevant professional urging caution in interpreting and reacting to these news reports and anecdotes. Now with something as serious as this I would not at all object to such cautions being placed a bit more pro…

As someone who has taken extremely heavy doses of some very, very potent psychedelics (LSD, DMT, ketamine, mescaline and psilocybin), I am inclined to agree with you. I acknowledge that some people experience great benefits from psychedelics, but the current push to label psychedelics as mental health miracle solution doesn't sit right with me. Make no mistake: these chemicals are not to be trifled with. People with…

What you are saying makes me wonder whether there is a correlation between predisposition towards magical thinking (spirituality, religiosity, etc.) and effectiveness of psychedelics?

And for that matter could there be an equivalent of psychedelics for various types of AIs?

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