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Are these founders trying to screw me?

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Re: Are these founders trying to screw me?

#61

Post by alecco »

jhancock wrote: post #13

1 - talk to a lawyer. 2 - talk to a lawyer. 3 - talk to a lawyer. My non-legal opinion is that if you were promised shares and you have any form of documentation the conversation took place, you should leverage your position before the VC round closes and don't sign anything prior to getting what you feel is fair. Even if you do not stay with the company, you may get a nice payoff or some severance shares to walk and…

They all look decent when you start. In fact, if they look very decent and there's no clear paperwork from scratch watch out. Scammers are charming.

Re: Are these founders trying to screw me?

#62

Post by alecco »

readyrnot wrote: post #3
noodle wrote: post #2

first and foremost, is this really still worth it to pursue for you? sounds like its a stressful, difficult situation. ask to see if you can sign a NDA specifically with respect to the stock agreement, maybe? i'd also find out from your lawyer, if you can, exactly what your rights are. have you been officially working for them? is that code technically still yours? what other things have you signed? etc..

You're right it is very stressful and difficult. I've thought of walking away many times since in my opinion dealing with dishonest people is not worth it. I haven't signed anything ever with them. It's all been on good faith. I've been doing work on their servers and checking it into their repository I'm not sure what that means. Up here in the north east where there isn't a large pool of investors / firms like sili…

Think of making your own startup with your code and contacting the investor? Ask your lawyer :)

Re: Are these founders trying to screw me?

#63

Post by dkokelley »

_ecga wrote: post #59
dkokelley wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If he was to take the code elsewhere, that act could actually be considered the breach. And if he breached, what would he have to give back to the founders that was given to him for the code? Also, if the code was given in return for equity (or the promise of equity), then he is an owner and should have a say in the decision to accept the investment and negotiate the terms. I agree that the final stock agreement depe…

If a court determined that he breached, there could be damages for losses to the company based on his breach, i.e. it could go beyond him just giving back what they gave him. This is really the kind of thing where you need a lawyer's guidance based on very specific facts.

My point is that they haven't given him anything, thus there is no contract. The company can try and sue him for breach of contract but the issue is whether or not a contract actually exists. Of course a lawyer should always be involved to make sure that everything is ok legally.

Re: Are these founders trying to screw me?

#64

Post by chollida1 »

rksprst wrote: post #20
lux wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not really stealing of source if you wrote it and there's no contract saying it belongs to them. I know in Canada at least, unless otherwise stated copyright stays with the creator (in a contractor relationship, other way around for employees) and you've simply licensed them use of the code. So you're only bound to anything you've verbalized (that can be proven) and written down (think emails). I know our copyri…

It doesn't matter if there's a written contract... if you are working on a venture together with some sort of verbal understanding, in California (I'm assuming in the rest of the USA too) that is just as legally binding as a written contract (At least according to the two lawyers I've talked to... you should obviously talk to your lawyer about your options as circumstances may be different).

> It doesn't matter if there's a written contract... if you are working on a venture together with some sort of verbal understanding, in California (I'm assuming in the rest of the USA too) that is just as legally binding as a written contract

That is true, but only if you can prove there was an oral agreement. That is why written agreements are considered better, you have physical proof.

With an oral agreement you'll need to convince a judge or jury that both sides agreed to said contract, otherwise you could be SOL.

Re: Are these founders trying to screw me?

#65

Post by jhancock »

alecco wrote: post #61
jhancock wrote: post #13

1 - talk to a lawyer. 2 - talk to a lawyer. 3 - talk to a lawyer. My non-legal opinion is that if you were promised shares and you have any form of documentation the conversation took place, you should leverage your position before the VC round closes and don't sign anything prior to getting what you feel is fair. Even if you do not stay with the company, you may get a nice payoff or some severance shares to walk and…

They all look decent when you start. In fact, if they look very decent and there's no clear paperwork from scratch watch out. Scammers are charming.

I see many well intentioned founders that do not have well defined stock ownership plans in place in the first 6 months. In order to tell the difference between a scammer and a well intentioned person that is simply shy of defining the options you have to judge the person's character and past history.

The way I've dealt with this problem is simple. ShellShadow is not my first start-up (both as founder and as one receiving equity from founders). I have solid equity contract in place from day one. I know the value of a good key employee and can quantify that value in the equity contract from day one. Additionally, my contracts are short and easy to understand with no legal double talk.

This approach works for me and I would like to see others that supposedly have "done it all before" to follow this approach. If your a leader, act like it!!!

Re: Are these founders trying to screw me?

#66

Post by readyrnot »

menloparkbum wrote: post #57
readyrnot wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No I've not been paid for anything. My lawyer at one point mentioned that if I was they could use that to say "oh we've paid him, that's what we agreed to as compensation". So I believe you're correct in this aspect. I"ll ask my lawyer again.

how do you survive if you haven't been paid for a year?

This is side work, I have another job.
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