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The Deported

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61–70 of 141 posts

Re: The Deported

#61
post #55
post #53

alright, experienced Turk here. I have been living abroad almost 8 years already... Ask me anything...

Why do you think that the genocide is so heavily denied by modern Turkey ( Attaturk and onwards)? Is it only due do reparations or is there lingering ethnic... "superiority" remaining? Because at first glance, modern Turkey fought long and hard to distance itself from the Ottoman Empire, and make it well known they aren't a successor state. Why not pin all the blame for the genocide on the decadent Ottomans and be do…

[flagged]

Re: The Deported

#62
post #55
post #53

alright, experienced Turk here. I have been living abroad almost 8 years already... Ask me anything...

Why do you think that the genocide is so heavily denied by modern Turkey ( Attaturk and onwards)? Is it only due do reparations or is there lingering ethnic... "superiority" remaining? Because at first glance, modern Turkey fought long and hard to distance itself from the Ottoman Empire, and make it well known they aren't a successor state. Why not pin all the blame for the genocide on the decadent Ottomans and be do…

After almost a century of doubling down too much for too long it has become a societal character issue that can not even be questioned, let alone admitted. From Turk's point of view, Armenians asked for it when they worked together with foreign forces and rebelled, and all Turks did was to relocate them to safer locations so they don't get killed. If some Armenians ended up dead then it's because of problems related to transportation, lack of resources, etc, but definitely not a genocide, and even it if was, it's not intentional.

You can see the narcissist's prayer somewhere in there and it is sad that it has become (long ago) an easily noticeable character trait of average Mehmet. You can only move on as a society/nation if you looked back in your past and learned from your mistakes. Turks have been denied of this opportunity by a century of identity politics and now sadly it's too late.

Re: The Deported

#63
post #38
post #37

And with all that genocide talk, Turkey is a NATO member and was(technically is?) an EU candidate. Moreover, rumors are, Finland and Sweden will submit to Turkish demands regarding Kurds. Turkey has also led a military campaign against Armenia together with their satellite just recently. Maybe it really doesn’t bother western liberal democracies whether genocide happened. And it’s only used as a tool.

> Turkey has also led a military campaign against Armenia together with their satellite just recently That is not true, in 2020 Azerbaijan successfully liberated a region that was under Armenian occupation since 1994. I say liberated because that land was and is internationally recognized as part of Azerbaijan. Also, Azerbaijan suffered atrocities conducted by the Armenians, for example the Khojaly massacre[0]. Yes T…

Nice, you're comparing the PKK to ISIS!

The PKK aren't great (as a Kurd, I hate them), but to compare them to ISIS is just the Turkish narrative. It can be argued that Turkey as a state is way worse than the PKK. But of course, international politics always sides with governments.

I assume you mean those same teachers that were telling Kurdish kids: "Kurdish is bad", "Do not speak Kurdish", "Ne mutlu Türküm diyene!" (English: "How happy is the one who says I am a Turk!"). (PS. I still think it is wrong to kill teachers, no matter how hateful and racist they may be).

The PKK exists because of Turkish actions against the Kurds. Period.

Turks would say: "Nah, that was in the past, we love Kurds, I have Kurdish friends", but it is mostly lies: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhXCNuXiJZU (some Turks might do of course, but in general, Turks hate Kurds)

Don't get me wrong. A Kurd can be happy in Turkey. If he basically acts Turkish, lets go of his Kurdish culture and customs, and loves Ataturk (who forced Turkish surnames on all citizens of the "modern Turkey" and changed the names of thousands of Kurdish towns and villages from Kurdish to Turkish).

There are many Kurds in Turkey that are happy. However, these don't speak Kurdish. They speak Turkish in the family, they speak Turkish with their kids. To other Kurds, they are basically Turk.

In my opinion, one reason Turkey is invading North Syria (the Kurdish region - aka Rojava) is because the Kurds in North Syria are Kurmancî speakers. This is the same dialect of Kurdish that is spoken by the Kurds in Turkey.

Kurds in North Syria speak Kurdish at home, they watch Kurdish TV, they go about their daily lives in Kurdish. They watch Kurdish plays and listen to Kurdish music and since The Autonomous Administration of North and East Syria (AANES) has been a thing, the Kurds in Syria are studying Kurdish from year one all the way to college. This revival in Kurdish literature is really scary to Turkey because it lights a fire in the Kurmancî speakers in its territory. It shows the Kurds in Turkey that being a Kurd isn't bad, it shows them that Kurds are a people with a rich culture and it is a shame to let that go.

Turks would argue that no, we invade the Kurdish regions in Syria (see Efrîn/Afrin) because the people of The Autonomous Administration of North and East Syria (AANES) are the other side of the coin of PKK. Personally, I think that is bullshit. Turkey moved 1000s of ISIS members through its borders and helped them attack the Kurds when the Kurds were fighting ISIS.

Plus, now that Turkey is in control of Efrîn/Afrin, 1000s of Kurds were forced to flee, their homes and belongings have been given to former ISIS members (they no longer call themselves ISIS of course: https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/north-africa-west-asia/how-...). Efrîn/Afrin is/was a Kurdish majority region (https://www.ceasefire.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/CFR_Syr...), yet the new schools that are opened by Turkey in Efrîn/Afrin don't teach Kurdish. Only Arabic and Turkish.

Basically, Turkey has and is making a demographic change in Efrîn/Afrin, they are driving Kurds away and putting Arabs there. Then they'll say "come and look, there are hardly any Kurds here". They now want to do the same to the rest of North Syria.

Nothing scares Turkey more than Kurdish nationalism, which only gets stronger by Turkish aggression. You'd think they'd learn this by now, but no.

If in Turkey, Kurds are allowed to study from nursery to university in Kurdish, and if they truly get considered as Kurdish citizens of Turkey with no racism or oppression, then Kurdish national sentiment would die out.

Re: The Deported

#64
post #61
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you think that the genocide is so heavily denied by modern Turkey ( Attaturk and onwards)? Is it only due do reparations or is there lingering ethnic... "superiority" remaining? Because at first glance, modern Turkey fought long and hard to distance itself from the Ottoman Empire, and make it well known they aren't a successor state. Why not pin all the blame for the genocide on the decadent Ottomans and be do…

[flagged]

> Because, we didn't do it. ... "but they had it coming anyway"

Bizarre and amazing. Genocide denial, right there.

Re: The Deported

#65
post #53

alright, experienced Turk here. I have been living abroad almost 8 years already... Ask me anything...

What does "Experienced Turk" mean?

Re: The Deported

#66
post #63
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Turkey has also led a military campaign against Armenia together with their satellite just recently That is not true, in 2020 Azerbaijan successfully liberated a region that was under Armenian occupation since 1994. I say liberated because that land was and is internationally recognized as part of Azerbaijan. Also, Azerbaijan suffered atrocities conducted by the Armenians, for example the Khojaly massacre[0]. Yes T…

Nice, you're comparing the PKK to ISIS! The PKK aren't great (as a Kurd, I hate them), but to compare them to ISIS is just the Turkish narrative. It can be argued that Turkey as a state is way worse than the PKK. But of course, international politics always sides with governments. I assume you mean those same teachers that were telling Kurdish kids: "Kurdish is bad", "Do not speak Kurdish", "Ne mutlu Türküm diyene!"…

It's not the Turkish narrative, they are recognized terrorist organisation with a large number attacks on civilians.

I do accept the existence of the Turkish oppression on Kurds and I do blame the existence of PKK on the unjust treatment of Kurds by the Turkish state and I hope that the Kurds in Turkey will eventually obtain their rights and receive apology and compensation for the atrocities of the Turkish state.

It's just that I do not accept terrorism as a fair device of resistance and it is completely in Turkey's rights to push for elimination of grooming and funding of those organisations.

Re: The Deported

#67
post #61
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you think that the genocide is so heavily denied by modern Turkey ( Attaturk and onwards)? Is it only due do reparations or is there lingering ethnic... "superiority" remaining? Because at first glance, modern Turkey fought long and hard to distance itself from the Ottoman Empire, and make it well known they aren't a successor state. Why not pin all the blame for the genocide on the decadent Ottomans and be do…

[flagged]

> Because, we didn't do it.

It's not you, you know? Not even your parents were alive to do it. I hope one day you learn to see it this way so when you claim to be an experienced Turk, it actually doesn't sound like bullshit.

Re: The Deported

#68

> Talaat’s first objection was merely an admission that the Armenians were more industrious and more able than the dull-witted and lazy Turks Right. I wonder, precisely how bias is this great ambassador against the Turks? Do you know what the truth behind it all is? Nations are violent. They tend to overreact in terrible murderous ways. What’s worse, their will always be enough support in the hardliners in their popu…

> If the Armenians did indeed sabotage the Turks during the war with Russia then they should have fled or taken up arms right against the Turks

You speak as if nations are some monolithic hive minds with a single will.. the reality is that most people who were murdered weren’t active combatants or were not even related to active combatants. Also many other Christian people were targeted like the Assyrians, Coptic Greeks etc..

Re: The Deported

#69
post #65
post #53

alright, experienced Turk here. I have been living abroad almost 8 years already... Ask me anything...

What does "Experienced Turk" mean?

It's a joke. They mean they have experience in dealing with shit Turks have to deal all the time having to live in a Turkish society. The implication is that the experience that is naturally gained just by being in such society is intangible and is worth something. TBH, the joke is narcissist and it sucks.

Re: The Deported

#70
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nazi Russia? Not once, but twice?

Nazism = totalitarian fascist state plus political nationalism. Fascist Italy and Spain weren't nazist for example, while Germany was and Russia today is. Informally that specific flavor of the Russian Nazi ideology is called "rashism".

The Francoist regime was generally much more oppressive towards internal opposition groups than modern Russia. And as fucked up as the Russian invasion of Ukraine is the number of civilian casualties there is unlikely to ever reach the number of people the Italians killed in Ethiopia (especially if we look at the proportion of total population). But I guess since they were the wrong skin color we can divide the number by 10 or so?
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