History made in India: Govt agrees to anti-corruption bill • Hacker News Board

Re: History made in India: Govt agrees to anti-corruption bill

#61

Post by dimmuborgir » Sun, Aug 28, 2011, 5:45 AM UTC

vinutheraj wrote: post #29

dimmuborgir wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A corrupt Lokpal can be removed within two months by the parliament.

I think the constitution also has a process mentioned, on how to remove an MP, but that system is not working well. So how are you sure that this system will work. Why are we not urging them to fix the former system, instead of adding more.

Apart from cabinet secretary Lokpal is answerable to Election Commission which is autonomous. Along with this, the election process of a Lokpal itself will reduce chances of corruption.

Re: History made in India: Govt agrees to anti-corruption bill

#62

Post by chintanp » Sun, Aug 28, 2011, 6:21 AM UTC

GeneTraylor wrote: post #7

(note: I don't mean to be rude, but this comment has barely been up for 1 minute and I'm already being down-voted. Surely no one can read something this long this fast and down-vote even faster. I've tried to write a reasoned critique of the phenomena before me. It's not a political comment, but a logical one.) Any constitution is a fine balance of power, a body like this which concentrates power outside of the const…

but the citizens of any nation are responsible for corruption. Their leaders aren't alien beings who have descended from planet Z to rule upon their country

I have been thinking about it for few weeks now and was somehow not convinced that by having an anti corruption bill passed would suddenly make significant changes.

This nytimes article from last month, "In Fight for Better India, Best to Look Within" http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/02/world/asia/02iht-currents0... gives candid analysis of what is wrong and some way to fix it.

Re: History made in India: Govt agrees to anti-corruption bill

#63

Post by chakde » Sun, Aug 28, 2011, 8:18 AM UTC

anon5 wrote: post #57

chakde wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry but you sound very presumptuous - you could'nt bring yourself to stay a single day in situations where people have stayed their lifetime - or clean the toilet yourself - and you presume to dictate what is best for them ? About the shift in perceptions about Manmohan Singh: a person who is an A player in one position may well be a C player in a different position. It is a fact that despite RTI which only aff…

I agree with you on your second point. A person good for situation A may not be good for the position B. But that doesn't give a license to rubbish all of the person's achievements. As people at large seem to be doing the past few days. You caught me in one of my several weaknesses (your first point). But you must at-least acknowledge that I said it myself. Don't agree with your last para. Now you are presuming, I ha…

Well props to you for truthfulness. I don't think anyone is rubbishing the PM personally.

I was reading the Progress Principle today. It makes the point that setbacks have an outsized influence on one's mental makeup - much more than progress does. Check it out.

What corruption leads to is a set of daily setbacks to individuals. On the one hand the govt says this problem is impossible to solve. On the other the protestors say they have researched the issue and here is a way to solve it.

Which one do you pick and support ? It's a no contest to me.

I may have been ambivalent in April. But now in Aug, seeing that the govt has watered down their version of the bill so much that their lokpal won't even accept allegations of corruption from the general public ... it is clear they have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo. That made me more interested in the topic and I read the bill and both sides of the argument. My conclusion is that this is the chance to grab. Even if it reduces corruption by a few percentage points it will be a victory, and will release energy for the tasks that you mention so urgently need to get done.

Re: History made in India: Govt agrees to anti-corruption bill

#64

Post by kingsley_20 » Sun, Aug 28, 2011, 8:48 AM UTC

FraaJad wrote: post #51

sandGorgon wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if the lokpal bill comes and goes, the impact has already gone far beyond the concept of an ombudsman. For the first time in my memory, the urban middle class of India have been represented - as opposed to factions based on religion, caste, race and language. A new platform has been given due recognition - that of the growing, tax-paying, facebook-ing urban demographic which has never been able to dissolve its o…

factions based on Race in India? I think you are getting carried away with your hyperbole!

Vague as the concept of race is, doesn't the northeast represent one?

Re: History made in India: Govt agrees to anti-corruption bill

#65

Post by anon5 » Sun, Aug 28, 2011, 9:51 AM UTC

chakde wrote: post #63

anon5 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you on your second point. A person good for situation A may not be good for the position B. But that doesn't give a license to rubbish all of the person's achievements. As people at large seem to be doing the past few days. You caught me in one of my several weaknesses (your first point). But you must at-least acknowledge that I said it myself. Don't agree with your last para. Now you are presuming, I ha…

Well props to you for truthfulness. I don't think anyone is rubbishing the PM personally. I was reading the Progress Principle today. It makes the point that setbacks have an outsized influence on one's mental makeup - much more than progress does. Check it out. What corruption leads to is a set of daily setbacks to individuals. On the one hand the govt says this problem is impossible to solve. On the other the prote…

I am impressed that you read the bill, and then decided to support it.

I did not like the process of getting it done, for one thing. We are having this discussion in a much more civil way. But please look across the Internet (just a twitter search on 'Anna' will give you all colors of tweets). Particularly, in the earlier part of the fast. People are ready to bulldoze/dominate/abuse others...

The 'I am Anna', 'You are Anna' irritates me. No body can have such a steep rise in stock, in just four months ...

Wearing a black hat for a moment. The big suspicion I have is: 1) Anna was used as a tool by Mr. Kejriwal and Ms. Bedi. This is very different than what Gandhiji would have allowed to be done of himself. 2) Anna also did it primarily for fame a retired activist, getting his time in the sun at last ...

Now again wearing my grey hat: I do believe that Arvind Kejrival and Kiran Bedi are good people, basically. But good people also can be misled (they have to be more careful.)

I think, my note above is written in a sober tone. I have just hinted (or even stopped before that) some of my fears/concerns without going into some specific dark doubts that I have illustrated in this comment.

Re: History made in India: Govt agrees to anti-corruption bill

#66

Post by cnu » Mon, Aug 29, 2011, 8:04 PM UTC

blinkingled wrote: post #10

asdkl234890 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So as long as it remains totally independent (most likely) it'll be lethal against corruption. But what if someone tries to corrupt them? What makes them immune from corruption?

So you advocate genetically modified human beings to be created without the corruption gene to run an anti-corruption institution? Get off the high horses. It's all run by the people after all - you just hope to create a good balance of power and try to put better, educated people in places of power. There is no magic wand to suddenly rid of all malaise for you while you sit still and criticize. That's what the bill…

In other words, you throw all kind of shit at the wall and see what sticks.

Re: History made in India: Govt agrees to anti-corruption bill

#67

Post by digamber_kamat » Wed, Aug 31, 2011, 4:52 PM UTC

chakde wrote: post #48

digamber_kamat wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is there in those videos besides some Anna-glorification ? And to talk about supporters, yes, there are a large number of people that think like me, it is just that they are not firing from shoulders of an good intentioned old man. You can see the Facebook group: https://www.facebook.com/Indians4Republic Or Pragati: http://pragati.nationalinterest.in/

What he is actually saying is that people are supporting Anna without necessarily understanding the reasons why - then he proceeds to lay down the reasons how we got to this situation after 43 years of the bill and the recent increase in public pilfering. Also given is the example of the cleanup of Hong Kong corruption using an independant body with powers. Interesting links. But the constitution does not say governm…

Constitution does not say government should be small but common sense does. Also, wasting taxpayer's money over soap factories and airlines (not even 5% of India's population uses them) is also exploitation which has lead to abject poverty. A million children in India die every year just because of lack of food.

An open economy is certainly not free from faults but it at least helps us get rid of some basic problems. The new problems that arise that need to be addressed then. Our primary objective must to end that acute poverty which then leads to people selling their votes for a bag of rice.