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Canada's 'gamble' on delaying, mixing and matching Covid-19 vaccines paid off

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Re: Canada's 'gamble' on delaying, mixing and matching Covid-19 vaccines paid off

#61

Post by angelzen »

nitrogen wrote: post #44
chroem- wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not clear on what GP's connection to vaccinations is, but for what it's worth, Australia has recently implemented some very authoritarian covid policies despite it being sparsely populated. People are only allowed to leave their homes for two hours a day and everyone is required to take pictures of themselves inside their homes at regular intervals to prove their location to the police. Violators are being shot w…

everyone is required to take pictures of themselves inside their homes at regular intervals That is... bizarre. Very bizarre. Do you have a link to read more?

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/australias-two-la...

From what I can garner, there are such systems on trial, though as of Sept 16 the trials were on a voluntary basis.

Re: Canada's 'gamble' on delaying, mixing and matching Covid-19 vaccines paid off

#62

Post by kcartlidge »

> Canadian data now provides real world evidence that vaccinated people produce more antibodies if their second shot is delayed

This was decided in March 2021 but the UK introduced a three month delay between vaccine shots in January 2021. What was it about the UK data (btw I'm British) that meant it didn't count as "real world" despite being months ahead of Canada?

Don't get me wrong, the UK was laughed at for doing that so it genuinely was bold for Canada to do the same (as they added a fourth month onto the three the UK was already doing). It just seems a little dismissive of the UK who took the decision months earlier and had all the international flak (including from the manufacturers) for doing so.

Re: Canada's 'gamble' on delaying, mixing and matching Covid-19 vaccines paid off

#63

Post by makomk »

sandworm101 wrote: post #13
refurb wrote: post #3

“Bold” strategy? Canada had no option if they wanted to vaccinate quickly. Unlike the US and Europe, Canada dragged its heels on pre-ordering vaccines. Once it was apparent they couldn’t control the case numbers without vaccines, they took what they could get, prioritized first doses then realized they had different vaccines delivered for 2nd doses. The fact the mixed vaccines gives good protection is more luck than…

>> Canada dragged its heels on pre-ordering vaccines. No. Canada made some bad bets on where they would be getting vaccine. Canada assumed that a particular person would still be in the white house and that early US vaccines would not be available for export. So Canada threw in largely with European suppliers. That gamble was wrong. The certain person lost and US vaccination rates were lower then expected. US vaccine…

The US was no more willing to export vaccines under Biden than Trump, the media were just less interested in criticising the new president. Same with border restrictions: Biden attacked Trump's as counterproductive in his campaign, then got into office and immediately insisted on reimposing them unchanged and keeping them way beyond the point they made any kind of sense, but the media lost interest in criticising those as well.

Re: Canada's 'gamble' on delaying, mixing and matching Covid-19 vaccines paid off

#64

Post by adminscoffee »

makomk wrote: post #63
sandworm101 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Canada dragged its heels on pre-ordering vaccines. No. Canada made some bad bets on where they would be getting vaccine. Canada assumed that a particular person would still be in the white house and that early US vaccines would not be available for export. So Canada threw in largely with European suppliers. That gamble was wrong. The certain person lost and US vaccination rates were lower then expected. US vaccine…

The US was no more willing to export vaccines under Biden than Trump, the media were just less interested in criticising the new president. Same with border restrictions: Biden attacked Trump's as counterproductive in his campaign, then got into office and immediately insisted on reimposing them unchanged and keeping them way beyond the point they made any kind of sense, but the media lost interest in criticising tho…

people like the softer version of the same thing, in all actuality more people have died when biden got into office, i am not talking about covid here, the air strikes on civilians, the pulling out of afghanistan only to re-enter through the back door is a new kind of okie doke, but hey at least the guy with the spray tan is gone.

Re: Canada's 'gamble' on delaying, mixing and matching Covid-19 vaccines paid off

#65

Post by pastage »

refurb wrote: post #37
jeromegv wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And what is your point? The only countries that had a large amount of doses in the first few months of 2021 were the countries producing the vaccine. There was no way that the US would produce for export before vaccinating their own population. Canada had no local production. There was literally nothing they could do but wait. Its of course a problem not to have local production. But it’s not a lack of orders that wa…

Israel beat the US in vaccination rate. ”Israel cast a wide net last year when trying to secure vaccine doses at the height of the pandemic and pre-ordered from a number of companies.” By April of 2021 it was already giving excess doses away. https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/with-enough-suppli...

Yes they acted faster with more political capital at stake AFAIK, in the end the important part is how free trade countries reacted to the pandemic. There is a lot to say about acting in a way that hinders pandemic compared to making nations feel safe.

Re: Canada's 'gamble' on delaying, mixing and matching Covid-19 vaccines paid off

#66

Post by refurb »

sandworm101 wrote: post #49
refurb wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How did Israel gets enough vaccine by April then? Canada had barely started receiving doses then? I see an awful lot of whitewashing to cover mistakes going on.

Short story: they put in a higher bid and agreed to actively participate in studies, something that vaccine producers were looking for. But I would not discount the money aspect. "The first question is how Israel was able to get that many vaccines when supply is short? It is not because—according to reports—Israel paid about $30 per dose, almost double what other nations did. [...] The answer: Israel is a great pilot…

Exactly. Israel was willing to play the game. Other countries like Canada decided to wait for more info. That proved to be a bad move.

And Canada isn’t the only one: Australia, New Zealand, Singapore. Vietnam really screwed itself over trying to get domestic production going (homegrown and in-licensed). Once Delta got hold they saw a 400x increases in cases. Once it dawned on them vaccines were the only out, then acquired whatever they could by begging and borrowing. Now they are looking at a loss of foreign investment and a possible recession.

Re: Canada's 'gamble' on delaying, mixing and matching Covid-19 vaccines paid off

#67

Post by sandworm101 »

makomk wrote: post #63
sandworm101 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Canada dragged its heels on pre-ordering vaccines. No. Canada made some bad bets on where they would be getting vaccine. Canada assumed that a particular person would still be in the white house and that early US vaccines would not be available for export. So Canada threw in largely with European suppliers. That gamble was wrong. The certain person lost and US vaccination rates were lower then expected. US vaccine…

The US was no more willing to export vaccines under Biden than Trump, the media were just less interested in criticising the new president. Same with border restrictions: Biden attacked Trump's as counterproductive in his campaign, then got into office and immediately insisted on reimposing them unchanged and keeping them way beyond the point they made any kind of sense, but the media lost interest in criticising tho…

>> The US was no more willing to export vaccines under Biden than Trump

That may be true in hindsight, but at the time Canadian officials prediction that a second Trump term would be less friendly to vaccine exports. That wasn't an unreasonable estimation of the US political landscape at the time.

Re: Canada's 'gamble' on delaying, mixing and matching Covid-19 vaccines paid off

#68

Post by sandworm101 »

refurb wrote: post #66
sandworm101 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Short story: they put in a higher bid and agreed to actively participate in studies, something that vaccine producers were looking for. But I would not discount the money aspect. "The first question is how Israel was able to get that many vaccines when supply is short? It is not because—according to reports—Israel paid about $30 per dose, almost double what other nations did. [...] The answer: Israel is a great pilot…

Exactly. Israel was willing to play the game. Other countries like Canada decided to wait for more info. That proved to be a bad move. And Canada isn’t the only one: Australia, New Zealand, Singapore. Vietnam really screwed itself over trying to get domestic production going (homegrown and in-licensed). Once Delta got hold they saw a 400x increases in cases. Once it dawned on them vaccines were the only out, then acq…

>> And Canada isn’t the only one: [...] are looking at a loss of foreign investment and a possible recession.

Except that, now, Canada (78%) has a higher vaccination rate than most western nations, including the US (65%). And there is zero talk about loss of foreign investment.

Re: Canada's 'gamble' on delaying, mixing and matching Covid-19 vaccines paid off

#69

Post by switch007 »

rubyist5eva wrote: post #24

Paid off in what exactly? Many of our provincial governments have implemented totalitarian measures despite an insanely high vaccination rate and low death rate - creating a medically segregated society. In one province, the government has given itself vast power to perform warrantless search, confiscate property and conscript any person to the cause of "managing the emergency". Our courts uphold the measures because…

Hear hear. I knew someone would call out Canada's totalitarianism and get down-voted for it.

The criticism in response to the article is not out of place. The article gushes about how wonderful a job the vaccine has done. Well, it hasn't done a wonderful job for freedom or rights has it?

Re: Canada's 'gamble' on delaying, mixing and matching Covid-19 vaccines paid off

#70

Post by BigJono »

chroem- wrote: post #58
nitrogen wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

everyone is required to take pictures of themselves inside their homes at regular intervals That is... bizarre. Very bizarre. Do you have a link to read more?

An overview: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/09/pandemic-a... Allowing people to leave their house for up to an hour of exercise: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-58277503 Firing on protesters: https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/sep/21/victo...

"violators" aren't being shot with rubber bullets. Nazi fuckwits are being shot with rubber bullets after being given hours to leave their violent protests of their own free will before attacking police with projectiles and charging at them.

I watched the entire thing live, you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. The Guardian also did an expose on the instigators of those protests are accessed a group chat where the organisers were discussing how to slowly introduce the "Jewish question" to the crowd they'd managed to rile up.

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