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Treating beef like coal would make a big dent in greenhouse-gas emissions

economist.com

61–70 of 344 posts

Re: Treating beef like coal would make a big dent in greenhouse-gas emissions

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. Prices, not arbitrary bans, are the correct way to incorporate externalities in the costs of a product. People are far too happy to promote ad-hoc bans of all sorts of arbitrary things without creating any kind of general incentive structure that would automatically optimize the metrics of interest. The result is malinvestment, economic inefficiency, and global poverty. The problem is that the externality is s…

What bothers me most isn't the malinvestment (though that sucks) or a faliure to calculate costs and benefits, but the fact that they're moralizing zealots. A zealot can justify anything in the name of The Common Good (naturally, they are the ones who decide what The Common Good is)

Time to bring out the old CS Lewis quip:

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience."

A big problem is that the moral busybodies who propose laws banning random things are the same moral busybodies who censor internet discussion.

Re: Treating beef like coal would make a big dent in greenhouse-gas emissions

#62
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>beef is deadly for humanity because of destructive water and land usage How is it more deadly than transportation in terms of emissions or deaths caused by it? https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/sources-greenhouse-gas-emis...

Your source doesn't support your point, it doesn't break out transportation related to beef or the stuff feed to cows to make beef.

What is my point?

I question the focus on a beef, a percentage of 10% rather than 29% of the total, which is transportation, or 25% which is electricty.

Re: Treating beef like coal would make a big dent in greenhouse-gas emissions

#63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If only allowing the rich to eat beef will help save the planet then I'm for it.

the point is that the propertied class will lower wages and raise commodity prices to pay to keep eating an unsustainable amount of beef. instead we should restrict or ban industrial animal agriculture, while investing in educational material to help society transition away from beef. that and regenerative agriculture, agro-forestry, etc. Ernst Gotsch: https://youtube.com/watch?v=gSPNRu4ZPvE i don’t want to give my c…

Don't get me wrong, my children and I are vegan - I absolutely believe the best case scenario would be to eradicate animal agriculture altogether.

Re: Treating beef like coal would make a big dent in greenhouse-gas emissions

#64

It feels like we are headed into a new medieval era of sumptuary laws and moral decrees promulgated by a decentralized international clerical-academic class. I don't think I like it very much

Better than being headed into a new medieval era because climate change caused civilization to collapse.

Re: Treating beef like coal would make a big dent in greenhouse-gas emissions

#65
post #16

I can’t view the whole article due to the paywall, but I have to ask - where does this line of thinking lead? Does every pleasurable activity we might voluntarily undertake get scrutinized, regulated, or banned? I certainly hope not, since such losses of freedom can make the tyranny of the majority very real. It’s important that any potential policies are applied in a fair manner. For example, priced externalities sh…

The most straightforwardly fair way to do it is a carbon budget. If each person has some carbon budget and you want to spend yours on beef and I want to spend mine on motorcycle racing fuel, who is to argue we made the wrong choice? It goes back to one of my pet peeves that it is increasingly hard to find the kind of light bulbs I prefer, despite the fact that the electric supply to my home is powered by 100% renewab…

> The most straightforwardly fair way to do it is a carbon budget.

And that kind of budget is just called a "budget". The resistance of a certain type of activist to using prices to allocate scarcity is going to doom us all if these activists end up setting policy. Prices force people to be honest about what's important and to make tiny trade-offs every day between disparate things. Ad-hoc bans are vulnerable to all sorts of political forces that all amount to people signaling false things about their preferences. Money doesn't have this problem.

There's a reason that there's this common phrase "put your money where your mouth is".

Re: Treating beef like coal would make a big dent in greenhouse-gas emissions

#66
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not what fungible means... A Watt is a Watt, a soybean is not a steak...

I'm not sure why you think I said a soybean is a steak, but I meant that a soybean is a soybean, corn is corn, and pork bellies are pork bellies, when we're talking about things traded on the commodities markets.

It's not quite the same. Many people seek to eat local. To those people a steak from 10mi away is not fungible with a steak 1000mi away

Re: Treating beef like coal would make a big dent in greenhouse-gas emissions

#67
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, it could be as easy as banning cows and using buffalo for better ruminant yields.

To be fair, that has nothing to do with the current economy, where almost all cows go to feed lots to be fed human food (corn) to double their weight.

>To be fair, that has nothing to do with the current economy, where almost all cows go to feed lots to be fed human food (corn) to double their weight.

Have you travled outside the US? This is not true in most parts of the world, I wouldn't be suprised to see it only being a US practice.

Re: Treating beef like coal would make a big dent in greenhouse-gas emissions

#68
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your source doesn't support your point, it doesn't break out transportation related to beef or the stuff feed to cows to make beef.

What is my point? I question the focus on a beef, a percentage of 10% rather than 29% of the total, which is transportation, or 25% which is electricty.

Your point appears to be to claim that everything that is not most important is irrelevant. Which is a bad idea, because "we" can do more than one thing at a time.

Re: Treating beef like coal would make a big dent in greenhouse-gas emissions

#69
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ill omit that then, I am getting used to using HN. Objectively, we should look at the largest percentages that are causing carbon emissions if the goal was to lower it.

I'm pretty sure that insulting people for virtue signaling isn't an objective thing.

Objectively, we should look at the largest percentages that are causing carbon emissions if the goal was to lower it.

Re: Treating beef like coal would make a big dent in greenhouse-gas emissions

#70
post #64

It feels like we are headed into a new medieval era of sumptuary laws and moral decrees promulgated by a decentralized international clerical-academic class. I don't think I like it very much

Better than being headed into a new medieval era because climate change caused civilization to collapse.

Hysterical nonsense.
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