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Record number of environmental activists murdered

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Record number of environmental activists murdered

#61

Post by TeMPOraL »

adham01 wrote: post #12

The year is 2087, the remaining scientists that weren't hunted down in the previous year, have issued a dire warning that time is running out for action on climate change. The claim is rebuked again by a conglomerate consisting of Breathing apparatus manufacturers, Sunblock body-paint makers, Subterranean city developers, Biohazard swimsuit makers, Soylent green icecream industries, Nestlé, FEMA holiday camps, and th…

Not entirely about environment issues, but there's a TV show with something similar as a premise - Continuum. A crime solving drama/sci-fi, where the protagonist is a time traveler coming to our times from year 2070-ish, time when the world is ruled by a Corporate Congress, consisting of thinly veiled allusions to well-known corporations of today. In between all the action and emotional drama, it also delivers some good critique of tech businesses, corporate overreach, and surveillance state.

Re: Record number of environmental activists murdered

#62

Post by ArchieMaclean »

happymellon wrote: post #51
ArchieMaclean wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course we should be doing all we can to prevent murder! It is just always hard to tell with statistics and having a more honest statistic (that, say, shows that murder rates have doubled while number of activists have increased 30%) would be preferable.

So you are okay with corporate murder, as long as they don't murder more than have become activists as a ratio? If murder rates have doubled that is bad, regardless of the number of people becoming activists.

Of course I'm not "okay with corporate murder".

I just wanted to see some context as to why the rate was increasing.

Re: Record number of environmental activists murdered

#63

Post by cmav »

andriesm wrote: post #50
yunohn wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Despite this weird sub-thread, the article isn’t talking about “dangerosity”. They’re reporting on the increase in evil activities by anti-environmental mega corps, who are also murdering opposing activists.

What indication do we have that environmentalally unfriendly companies are murdering activists? I cannot imagine that being their best PR strategy, not to mention the fact that murdering your opposition attracts a lot of scrutiny, investigation, and which corp exec would want to risk going to jail for ordering a hit on an activist. Far more practical to lobby or spread counter marketing spin.

There are well documented murders of union workers, for example https://www.ituc-csi.org/guatemala-pre-meditated-murder-of?l...

The situation is probably the same for environment activists, you can be sure that it's not PR that will prevent them from getting killed...

Re: Record number of environmental activists murdered

#64

Post by paganel »

rocgf wrote: post #48
paganel wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> in environmentally damaging activities such as logging. That's most probably the case, yes. I live in a country (Romania) where a lot of illegal (or borderline-illegal) logging activities happen and a few environmental activists have been physically harmed while one or two foresters have actually been killed. The issue is that many mountain communities (where the logging happens) are dependent on that activity for…

Not sure if that's quite right? The ones targeted by the law and activists for illegal logging are usually companies connected to politicians. They are indeed violent, but they don't get to benefit from any excuses like the one you presented.

Those companies are not using robots to cut those trees down and transport them, they're using local people who get paid for that. If you stop those logging activities then the locals don't get paid anymore.

Another thing is that a lot of people living in those mountain villages were dependent on those forrest trees for their winter heating and small things to do around the house, it was an unwritten rule centuries old, i.e. the forrest belonged to everyone from the village. In Western Europe the powers that be got rid of this custom some time ago, the French around 200 years ago thanks to Napoleon, the English I think even before that. Now, you have those foresters accompanied in some cases by the police who can send you to prison if you're carrying some undocumented wood, the same as your dad or your grand-dad or your ancestors used to do for centuries. Of course that will create havoc.

Re: Record number of environmental activists murdered

#66

Post by throwaway8689 »

What do the BBC or Global Witness want me to do with this information?

Edit: Global Witness are campaigners. What do they want to happen as a consequence of writing this report?

In 2003 possibly the biggest march London ever saw, failed to stop the UK going to war in Iraq, and nobody got killed on the march. Sabotage with a monkey wrench does tend to make a practical difference but also means you're at risk of a beating or worse from from the work site guards.

Re: Record number of environmental activists murdered

#67

Post by Paianni »

yunohn wrote: post #45
zohch wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The police are in on it, the government is in on it, the corporation is responsible. Then why does it not stop? If you look at the countries where this problem is occuring, they don't really have highly effective governments, they have lots of corruption, and generally high crime rates. If the governments do not prosecute those responsible and hold corporations to account, this won't stop, and if the people in thos…

If you look at the corporations named, none of them are owned by locals. They’re all global mega corps, owned and operated through Western parents. They exploit the local chaotic governance to their advantage - and evade prosecution in their home countries by virtue of it being conducted on “foreign soil”.

Not always... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siemens#2005_and_continuing:_w...

Re: Record number of environmental activists murdered

#68

Post by rendall »

ArchieMaclean wrote: post #3

How does this compare to the growth in the number of environmental activists overall? Edit: it was pointed out below that it's probably more influenced by an increase in environmentally damaging activities such as logging. Edit 2: Yes, I think that murdering peaceful, innocent protestors is a disgusting act. I'm just questioning the article's use of statistics

> How does this compare to the growth in the number of environmental activists overall?

It's a legitimate question. Any answer other than environmental activists have increased/decreased by x is not an answer to the question. If it's an emotionally loaded response (e.g. Seriously? People are murdered while you quibble!), it's a non-sequitur.

Re: Record number of environmental activists murdered

#69

Post by WriterGuy2021 »

Nobody cares -- that's the sad truth. Most people are just running to stay in the same place on the corporate capitalist hamster wheel. I don't think people are free enough to care about morals and things that matter beyond their own life. I know the bourgeoise on here hate to hear these things, but it's true.

People certainly claim to care about climate change, but most do so only in order to reap the identity benefit. If saving the planet means making less money and living a more modest lifestyle, most people will say no. The outrage is mostly superficial.

"Tired with all these, for restful death I cry."

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