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Research into hallucinogenic drugs begins to shake off decades of taboo

economist.com

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Re: Research into hallucinogenic drugs begins to shake off decades of taboo

#61

Post by jquery »

anonLSD wrote: post #43
sp332 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, that's a lot of downvotes and only one counter-point. What sorts of recreational drugs are not addictive? And what sorts of drugs will not mess you up when taken in "recreational" dosages?

Pot, LSD, and mushrooms, for starters. Except for expansive and distorted definitions of the word "addictive", and except for that one friend everyone seems to have who couldn't handle their acid.

> that one friend everyone seems to have who couldn't handle their acid.

Do you characterize people with other drug sensitivities as "unable to handle their [Advil/Codeine/Penicillin/Accutane/etc]" ?

A drug makes 1% or 0.1% of its users go insane can still reasonably be characterized as very dangerous.

Re: Research into hallucinogenic drugs begins to shake off decades of taboo

#62

Post by derleth »

anonLSD wrote: post #45
derleth wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where is your evidence for any of that?

I think this is the sort of thing one is meant to consider and reflect upon, not the sort of thing one subjects to Standard Internet Argument Protocol.

So there's no evidence, then.

Re: Research into hallucinogenic drugs begins to shake off decades of taboo

#63

Post by derleth »

burgerbrain wrote: post #42
sp332 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's extremely addictive, similar to heroin. https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Oxycodone#Rec...

Ethanol is so absurdly addictive that trying to quit can literally kill you . Heroin? You'll just wish you were dead. It's dangerous enough that ethanol related death is the number one cause of death in some modern countries, before even heart disease. Yet most of society would hesitate to label having a beer "bad use". Why? Probably because we're used to it, it's not a boogyman. https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedi…

OK, drinking alcohol is bad. I don't. What now?

Re: Research into hallucinogenic drugs begins to shake off decades of taboo

#64

Post by burgerbrain »

derleth wrote: post #63
burgerbrain wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ethanol is so absurdly addictive that trying to quit can literally kill you . Heroin? You'll just wish you were dead. It's dangerous enough that ethanol related death is the number one cause of death in some modern countries, before even heart disease. Yet most of society would hesitate to label having a beer "bad use". Why? Probably because we're used to it, it's not a boogyman. https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedi…

OK, drinking alcohol is bad. I don't. What now?

You misunderstand me. Ethanol is not bad. Very rarely are substances at all actually bad.

Addiction is bad.

In the case of common substances such as ethanol, society at large is generally pretty good at separating the two concepts, but when the substance becomes somewhat more obscure people freak the shit out for no apparent reason.

Re: Research into hallucinogenic drugs begins to shake off decades of taboo

#65

Post by mistermann »

derleth wrote: post #22
Alex3917 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"How does making you see things that aren't real challenge any hierarchies?" While LSD and psilocybin do sometimes cause people to hallucinate, this is only one small part of the psychedelic experience. The real value is in how the drugs change your thinking. It would take an entire book to explain this, but here are a few YouTube videos to give you the basic idea: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9c8an2XZ3MU http://ww…

All you talk about are emotional boosts, which you can also get from cocaine and amphetamines. Do you recommend those drugs as well? (As an aside, I don't take YouTube very seriously on the whole unless I happen to know the specific person who made and uploaded the videos.)

> You have evidently never taken psychedelics.

He wasn't joking you know.....why do you think such normally respectable people talk about this...hell man, I'm likely more conservative than you!

Re: Research into hallucinogenic drugs begins to shake off decades of taboo

#66

Post by omarchowdhury »

derleth wrote: post #62
anonLSD wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is the sort of thing one is meant to consider and reflect upon, not the sort of thing one subjects to Standard Internet Argument Protocol.

So there's no evidence, then.

Evidence for what? The effects produced or how society would change if the effects (in change of thinking) was prevalent in all the members of the society?

Re: Research into hallucinogenic drugs begins to shake off decades of taboo

#67

Post by timmm »

wheels wrote: post #31
maaku wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Primarily just those which result in dopamine production are addictive. Psychedelic drugs do not, and are generally not addictive.

That's false, actually. The most dangerous additive things are generally GABA agonists (alcohol, GHB, etc.) and things that futz with opioid receptors (heroine, etc.). Those classes of drugs produce physical dependance and in extreme cases withdrawal can be fatal. Dependence on drugs that mess with the dopamine system (nicotine, caffeine, amphetamines, cocaine, etc.) is almost completely psychological. The physical w…

He's actually right; dopamine is our primary pleasure reward system. In addition to interacting with GABA alcohol triggers dopamine in the same way caffeine, amphetamines, and even ecstasy do. And please don't tell me you think Opiates have no effect on dopamine...most drugs just keep dopamine around longer by blocking the reuptake. Opiates literally release the stuff. Hence the massice euphoric state.

You have a case with benzos, I suppose but in that case physical addiction is far more prominent than psychological. LSD/halluconigens act on the 5-HT receptors and is not psychologically addictive nor pragmatically possible for physical dependence.

Re: Research into hallucinogenic drugs begins to shake off decades of taboo

#68

Post by mannicken »

sp332 wrote: post #37
mannicken wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a bunch of assholes can't control their habits and OD or start stealing for fixes, why should everyone else suffer? It's not as addictive as you think, and I feel like some people use demonization of drugs to excuse their own fuck ups. It's just so easy to blame everything on a drug, isn't it?

What the fuck? People destroy their lives for another hit. People I know have done that. Addiction is not the same thing as a habit. It is much more addictive than you think. If you can find me one junkie who stood on principle and quit cold turkey just because they ran out of money, I will seriously reconsider my position. But I know you can't, because that's not how addiction works.

There's a lot of opiate users who chip/legitimately use their drugs but don't come out because of fucked up stereotypes ;-)
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