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On Being an Outsider

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Re: On Being an Outsider

#61

Post by endgame »

logshipper wrote: post #32

I moved for university to Toronto, Canada (from India) when I was 18. Despite having lived here for (nearly) 4 years, and loving absolutely every single minute of it, I don't know if and how I will ever be truly claim myself as being "from" Toronto. Everytime someone here asks me where am I from, I genuinely don't know how to answer them. Do I say I'm from India? Well, I haven't gone back once in these 5 years, and I…

Suggestion: Answer the question figuratively, not literally: "I call Toronto home", or "I call Toronto home, though I was born in India."

Re: On Being an Outsider

#62

Post by ReactiveJelly »

bobthechef wrote: post #6

Live in this world, but be not of this world. If you feel like a foreigner in this world, then that is a good sign. This is not ultimately your true home.

If my true home has people in it, I'll probably be an outsider there, too.

I'll hedge my bets here. 100 years is too long to sit on my hands.

Re: On Being an Outsider

#63

Post by mixmastamyk »

pelagic_sky wrote: post #2

I have always loved Japan. I visited once, and made plans to move there. I lived in the heart of Tokyo for three years. I made a lot of friends, but being a white American, I came to grasps that I would always be a Gaijin, and that I would never fit in, no mater how well I spoke Japanese or adopted to their customs. I left Japan to focus on my future somewhere back in America. 10 years later I booked a three week tri…

The "little tokyo" neighborhood of a large North American city would probably be a comfortable place.

Re: On Being an Outsider

#64

Post by spaetzleesser »

em-bee wrote: post #60
spaetzleesser wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I kind of have always felt like an outsider in the culture I grew up in. So I actually prefer to be in a country where I am visibly an outsider because it feels more congruent and weird behavior from me is also easier to excuse or accept.

i had that experience as well, but i noticed that once i had a family i didn't care about that anymore, and i also feel that the older i get, the more i get to attribute differences to my age

Getting old works for me too! I don't give a f..k anymore. But I still find it easier to live as an obvious stranger.

Re: On Being an Outsider

#65

Post by M277 »

Having been exposed to the internet at a very young age, I feel like an outsider in my own country and culture. There's just too much difference with others (hobbies, interests, way of thought... nearly everything), too much things I miss / don't (can't?) understand, and a lingering mental feeling that "I don't belong here". It's a really cold feeling that is always just there.

I was always lonely, but sometimes some people would be friendly towards me, and I'd feel sad... "Come play with us," they'd say. "I would love to.... but I can't. I don't belong here," I'd think. Of course, I couldn't reply with that.

I don't really belong / resonate with foreign cultures either. The internet (at least the part I was on most of the time) is mostly Western, but there are many differences still.

My 'home' has become with individuals, instead. Some people really resonate with me and make me feel that I belong with them, that I am not a stranger, not an outsider. They are extremely rare, but they're here; parent and siblings, along with some very close friends. And I am honestly very thankful for their presence.

Communities like HN as well don't give me the "I don't belong here" feeling. I don't know why... maybe because I grew up with communities like this? (I grew up with the old forum boards of old. It's a shame that most are dead now.) Or maybe because these communities are mostly defined by their contributors, their users, and so I don't feel like a stranger? I am not sure, honestly.

I have been wanting to write about this for a while in full detail, but I haven't had the time unfortunately.

Re: On Being an Outsider

#66

Post by lmm »

type0 wrote: post #56
daenz wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm asking OP if they do because of this line: >being a white American, I came to grasps that I would always be a Gaijin,

I find that Americans give to much weight to the skin color, it has the historical reasons there but often can't be applied in the same way outside the US.

Yeah. FWIW as a white British/Irish guy, I've felt comfortable in Japan. (I've had racism here, but I got it in the UK too).

Re: On Being an Outsider

#67

Post by tayo42 »

logshipper wrote: post #32

I moved for university to Toronto, Canada (from India) when I was 18. Despite having lived here for (nearly) 4 years, and loving absolutely every single minute of it, I don't know if and how I will ever be truly claim myself as being "from" Toronto. Everytime someone here asks me where am I from, I genuinely don't know how to answer them. Do I say I'm from India? Well, I haven't gone back once in these 5 years, and I…

The question "where are you from" is vague. I think it always depends on the context and your current location. Like if you are living in Toronto and took a trip to the US, I think it's appropriate to answer Toronto. If your in a bar in Toronto and someone asks you that, I think it would be misleading to say your from Toronto as that would imply you grew up there.

I just think of the question as a conversation starter I guess, give as little or as much info as you want to give the asker lol

Re: On Being an Outsider

#68

Post by xwolfi »

M277 wrote: post #65

Having been exposed to the internet at a very young age, I feel like an outsider in my own country and culture. There's just too much difference with others (hobbies, interests, way of thought... nearly everything), too much things I miss / don't (can't?) understand, and a lingering mental feeling that "I don't belong here". It's a really cold feeling that is always just there. I was always lonely, but sometimes some…

I don't know what you country is, but I've felt the same way as soon as I started understanding English, a semi-rare feat at the time in my city/region (Normandy, France). I've felt so alienated, having all my private life in English (news, podcast, books, discussions online) that after trying to make my gf of 6 years follow a bit, I decide to give it all up and move to a more English-speaking country (Hong Kong).

This was not the ONLY reason of course, but after having left behind all this frenchness, I have never felt so at home. Which is funny because there's nothing more foreign than a Normandy guy in Hong Kong, but at least here everything is in English, everyone speaks it to some extent while having another main language (so just like me).

I'll always be a foreigner in the eyes of Chinese people, for sure, but I'll never find a place with some many people like me, they even are majority right wing capitalists like me, something very rare in France :D

Re: On Being an Outsider

#69

Post by xwolfi »

pelagic_sky wrote: post #2

I have always loved Japan. I visited once, and made plans to move there. I lived in the heart of Tokyo for three years. I made a lot of friends, but being a white American, I came to grasps that I would always be a Gaijin, and that I would never fit in, no mater how well I spoke Japanese or adopted to their customs. I left Japan to focus on my future somewhere back in America. 10 years later I booked a three week tri…

Something that helped me in Hong Kong (am French) was also to marry very local, and have a child. First, that helps for all that very difficult negociation in Cantonese on rent price, bill setup and all the crap the employees are a bit lazy to translate for you.

But it also gives you an unremovable link to the country. Yes I'll be a Gweilo forever in their eyes, and they barely understand when I say I'm more Chinese now than their children who spent less time here, and paid no taxes.

I guess it's fine not to fit in perfectly, it's not very important: when you make a choice to immigrate, your reasons for doing so must be both about the new country but also the old one. I have no qualms saying I gave away France, I left it knowing what I was abandonning and why, and now I can only move forward.

It's also true that I never fit in in France: I was anti-socialist, from a family that has owned small businesses for generations, believe in capitalism, free market, all these stuff that made me always make enemies in France.

Maybe I'm a gweilo, but I think all the same things they do, and I'd defend the country just as well as them.

Re: On Being an Outsider

#70

Post by xwolfi »

deepsun wrote: post #8
ilaksh wrote: post #7

I think your experience as an outsider is really going to depend on how you socialize, how much you do it, with whom, and other specific aspects of your situation. Such as which specific businesses you frequent. Some specific people will treat you more warmly than others. Some neighborhoods or neighbors will have more culture in common and with yours. That's the experience that I've had living in a few different part…

> I think your experience as an outsider is really going to depend on how you socialize ... I'd disagree. Sometimes it's about who you are, not about what you do. In some societies you can blend in easily (like San Francisco), in some -- there's no chance, no matter what you do.

You can change who you are. Really. In fact if you immigrate, I'd argue you must.

You'll never change your physical appearance, but you can change everything else, your name, your language, your ideas. Don't immigrate if you don't love the local customs so much you're ready to die for them.

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