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Amazon plans to ‘return to an office-centric culture as our baseline’

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Re: Amazon plans to ‘return to an office-centric culture as our baseline’

#61
post #22

I have been working from home for 10 years. My wife recently had a baby and I wish I had an office to go to...

I've been working from home for even longer and working from home when my children were born was awesome. Being able to be a bigger part of the first year for both children was great for our whole family. Having the flexibility to do so was great. I definitely adjusted how and when I worked but I wouldn't have traded that for anything.

Re: Amazon plans to ‘return to an office-centric culture as our baseline’

#62
post #17

If companies had to pay even part of the externalities of commuting they'd have stopped this antiquated modus operandi long ago. As it stands I feel like we're going to have to wait until all Silent Generation/Boomers retire before we can see real progressive change in this area. Honestly it really speaks to poor management in general. If your only measure for project progress is "butts in seats," then you have no id…

I'm 28 and can't wait until I get back to the office. A lot of people like the social aspect of the job and not everybody decides to live a miserable commute away from their office

Not everyone is in their 20s in an unfamiliar city.

Re: Amazon plans to ‘return to an office-centric culture as our baseline’

#63

If companies had to pay even part of the externalities of commuting they'd have stopped this antiquated modus operandi long ago. As it stands I feel like we're going to have to wait until all Silent Generation/Boomers retire before we can see real progressive change in this area. Honestly it really speaks to poor management in general. If your only measure for project progress is "butts in seats," then you have no id…

> If companies had to pay even part of the externalities of commuting they'd have stopped this antiquated modus operandi long ago. I personally lost money by working from home. My transportation costs were negligible, but I lost access to free food/drink and have to consume much more electricity at home.

I don't know where you live but is it possible to write at least the electricity off as a work expense? Sure it won't offset it but at least dull the cost a little.

Re: Amazon plans to ‘return to an office-centric culture as our baseline’

#64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not in GP’s boat (I unexpectedly love WFH), but if part of what I miss is the effectiveness of shared analog whiteboard discussions, those are hard if you’re the only one at the whiteboard.

Right I'm pointing out that being glad everyone is being forced back into the office against their will is being glad that other people's happiness is being sacrificed for your own. Which doesn't sound so great when you say it like that.

It seems like that fully in-person, fully remote, and hybrid teams will all exist, and most people will be able to get their preferences satisfied. You also can’t show up to a startup and sling COBOL or to a bank and cowboy Elixir. People will sort themselves into jobs that match their styles. Perhaps it is “unfair” that remote work partisans will have to go through a job search and I won’t, but you win some and lose some. My job does not optimize my personal happiness either, that’s why they pay me.

Re: Amazon plans to ‘return to an office-centric culture as our baseline’

#65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> am i the only person excited about this If they'd announced people could optionally return to the office, then yeah maybe be excited about it. But are you excited they're going to force your co-workers to return even if they don't want to? Why?

I don’t care how people do their focus time, and I’m fine with Zoom for broadcast/presentation style meetings, but I’m excited to have my coworkers physically present again when we’re discussing and troubleshooting things together. Zoom fatigue is real, latency kills interactive conversation, and the avatars on my screen are at this point pretty disconnected from the real people I once knew.

Intraverts can get just as fatigued by that physical interaction too though.

Re: Amazon plans to ‘return to an office-centric culture as our baseline’

#66
post #14

If companies had to pay even part of the externalities of commuting they'd have stopped this antiquated modus operandi long ago. As it stands I feel like we're going to have to wait until all Silent Generation/Boomers retire before we can see real progressive change in this area. Honestly it really speaks to poor management in general. If your only measure for project progress is "butts in seats," then you have no id…

It seems like that externality would be relatively straightforward to identify and de-incentivize. Just change the rules to allow workers to expense travel to their regular reporting location and then tax companies based on the total number above a certain floor.

to internalize those costs for most workers, as most workers are hourly, you can just make the regular commute part of work time (perhaps using average commute time to exclude abnormal variances). that avoids using tax law, which can convolute incentives and create unintended loopholes.

Re: Amazon plans to ‘return to an office-centric culture as our baseline’

#67
post #12

am i the only person excited about this (i dont work at amazon) im pretty burned out on wfh

No, there are lots of extroverts who like social interaction in the workplace, and bad managers who think their main job is to observe and ensure butts-in-seats.

I don't think I qualify for either introvert or extrovert (that is, I tend to be self-reflective about some things and outgoing about others).

There are plenty of other reasons too. It is much faster to communicate face to face (for me) and I tend to be much better at resolving micro-miscommunications that can blow up in hours of days of work delays when I'm face to face than when I'm remote. Compounded with the fact that I am not good at reading people in general (but much worse so remotely), in the WFH setup I end up having a lot more situations where I don't know exactly where a coworker and I stand on a certain issue, which even if it happened in the office it would be resolved in I think it's because in the office, interrupting someone with a quick question is a much lower barrier/less hassle than asking them to join you on a short video conference.

Re: Amazon plans to ‘return to an office-centric culture as our baseline’

#68

am i the only person excited about this (i dont work at amazon) im pretty burned out on wfh

At the start I was. My work never had enforced work at office and there was people who were flexible so there is no mandate to go back.

Now that the office is open, honestly I don't go in as much as I thought I would and seem to miss it less than I imagined. I like the flexibility and do enjoy going in on the occasion to see people but honestly I think I'm going to stick to WFH for most of the time.

Re: Amazon plans to ‘return to an office-centric culture as our baseline’

#69
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like that externality would be relatively straightforward to identify and de-incentivize. Just change the rules to allow workers to expense travel to their regular reporting location and then tax companies based on the total number above a certain floor.

It's more than just travel, it's also the cost of owning and maintaining a vehicle, the space to park it both at home and at work, the cost of insuring a vehicle. Or the cost of a bus pass/transit at least. But the time cost of transit is generally higher than the time cost of commuting by car. And the time cost of commuting in general is pretty high and will never, ever show up on an expense report. It's silly how m…

Also: maintaining a work wardrobe (more important for some than others), dealing with meals (packing, transporting, etc), forced social interactions that have no work value (Larry stops by every morning 15 minutes after you are in the zone and won't leave), pets being left alone for 8-10 hours a day (again, many people won't have this), traveling to the office when roads are icy, and so on.

Re: Amazon plans to ‘return to an office-centric culture as our baseline’

#70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not optimistic about my chances remaining in home office.

Interview now while everyone is remote and it’s easier to do versus taking time off when you’re forced back into an office.

This! Job-hunting is so ridiculously easy when everyone is working from home.
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