Why You Should Take Any Vaccine • Hacker News Board

Re: Why You Should Take Any Vaccine

#61

Post by bsder » Thu, Mar 04, 2021, 6:52 AM UTC

1996 wrote: post #57

bsder wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've read that up to 76% of the medical professional in some EU countries are refusing the vaccine, so I wonder why they do that is the science is so valid. Cite or you get a downvote. Name the country and the vaccine type. Would I take any of Moderna, J&J, etc. developed under scrutiny and forced to open their data to the public? Sure. Would I take one of the Russian or Chinese vaccines that have had questionable…

> Cite or you get a downvote. Relax I just wrote from memory - I remembed the number, not the source, but someone gave an actual source. Happy? > Would I take one of the Russian or Chinese vaccines that have had questionable data releases? Probably not. I will happily take any vaccine that has been tested over 10M peoplefor over 1 year - even better if it's a tried and true old technology (not mRNA) like at least Ast…

And quoting the cite:

> One reason for the scepticism is that those recommending the vaccine are the same people - the French state - whom care home workers blame for their low pay and tough working conditions, said Malika Belarbi, a care worker and trade union official.

So, basically, this has nothing to do with whether the vaccines are or are not medically okay but everything to do with the fact that the workers don't trust the people who have crapped on them.

And, when you say care workers, normally those people are NOT medical professionals (most, in fact, are probably immigrant labor).

The downvote stays.

Re: Why You Should Take Any Vaccine

#62

Post by throw374u9 » Thu, Mar 04, 2021, 6:54 AM UTC

1996 wrote: post #48

throw374u9 wrote: post #41

[flagged]

> I also do not trust chinese vaccine and their manufacturing process. Maybe you could have phrased that in a way that's not so racist? EDIT: I sometimes try to explain that I expect such things to be posted with almost 100% certainty, and that it's not nice to read such things that https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26322291 so I must insist: you may not trust a company or manufacturing process, but not trusting a…

Sorry, being racist towards CCP is the worst!

Re: Why You Should Take Any Vaccine

#63

Post by panny » Thu, Mar 04, 2021, 6:58 AM UTC

hanche wrote: post #42

panny wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

23 in Norway as well in one elderly home. https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n149

I am pretty sure they were not all in one elderly home. In a brief look at the BMJ paper I did not see that claim, and besides I think such a dramatic incident would have made a much bigger splash in the news.

>I am pretty sure they were not all in one elderly home

46 residents of the Nuestra Señora del Rosario home in Spain died after receiving the shot.

https://sevilla.abc.es/andalucia/cadiz/sevi-brote-residencia...

I can't find the article I read on the 23 in Norway weeks ago which stated the name of the home at this moment. Perhaps they were mistaken and retracted.

I think it is safe to say anyone who claims no one has died after receiving the shot is not being honest. There are LOTS of cases of this happening.

Re: Why You Should Take Any Vaccine

#64

Post by samus » Thu, Mar 04, 2021, 7:00 AM UTC

1996 wrote: post #32

I'm young and healthy, with less than 0.4% risks of dying, so I think I'll pass for the time being, and leave my dose to those who want it. I'm super happy to give it to them, as I want as many people vaccinated to protect me (herd immunity) without being vaccinated myself to avoid the rare risk of side effects that will be known better in a year or two from now. Yeah, I'm selfish. And no, I don't care about people p…

> I'm young and healthy, with less than 0.4% risks of dying, so I think I'll pass for the time being, and leave my dose to those who want it.

Your argument is based on a superficial interpretation of these 0.4% of "risks". Let's assume you mean Covid, and not paper cuts or meteorite impacts. 0.4% is no promise that you won't die if you get it. Also, death rate is not the only factor that should be taken into account. Covid can seriously mess up your health even if you are young and healthy and survive.

A point that should also convice those that think selfishly: the faster herd immunity is achieved, the sooner this whole story ends. This should reduce the need for further lockdowns and also reduce the risk of some mutation of Covid-19 coming back. The seasonal influenca has been pretty much disrupted by the lockdowns and the sharp reduction in international travelling. Surely nobody misses them. Let's make the most out of it and ensure there is not going to be seasonal Covid in the future.

Re: Why You Should Take Any Vaccine

#65

Post by throw374u9 » Thu, Mar 04, 2021, 7:01 AM UTC

hkhjghg wrote: post #58

1996 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I also do not trust chinese vaccine and their manufacturing process. Maybe you could have phrased that in a way that's not so racist? EDIT: I sometimes try to explain that I expect such things to be posted with almost 100% certainty, and that it's not nice to read such things that https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26322291 so I must insist: you may not trust a company or manufacturing process, but not trusting a…

Racism?! Seems as likely me that you're publicly berating a student of English for the fun of it. Heck, if GP is implying that they could get the Chinese vaccine, wouldn't that imply they are themselves Chinese?

Chinese vaccine with trip to UAE is righ now the only vaccine available to me. I need jab for travel, but it will take another 12 months to get it through public health system (EU).

Re: Why You Should Take Any Vaccine

#66

Post by rocketbop » Thu, Mar 04, 2021, 7:07 AM UTC

1996 wrote: post #45

nerdbaggy wrote: post #37

I feel like if anybody wanted to apply critical thinking they were immediately called an anti vaxer. I think people should always question everything. And since the science and research is valid I think most people come to the conclusion that it’s fine.

I've read that up to 76% of the medical professional in some EU countries are refusing the vaccine, so I wonder why they do that if the science is so valid. Antivaxx craze and fake news network effects can only explain so much.

Not sure where this number is from. One of the main challenges of vaccine takeup in France and Germany (including health staff) is more about having a preference for the higher efficacy vaccines over the AstraZenica.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-56242617

Re: Why You Should Take Any Vaccine

#67

Post by TylerE » Thu, Mar 04, 2021, 7:17 AM UTC

oh_sigh wrote: post #38

panny wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Since the beginning of the trials, all trials, there has not been a single death or hospitalization among people vaccinated. The statement clearly says, since the date when trials began, there have been no deaths among all people who received the shot. This is obviously an untrue statement and misinformation.

I'll just say that is a very strange reading of the sentence. There's really no where to go with this exchange if we can't even agree on that.

None of which are qualifies given in the GP

Re: Why You Should Take Any Vaccine

#68

Post by hanche » Thu, Mar 04, 2021, 7:25 AM UTC

panny wrote: post #63

hanche wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am pretty sure they were not all in one elderly home. In a brief look at the BMJ paper I did not see that claim, and besides I think such a dramatic incident would have made a much bigger splash in the news.

>I am pretty sure they were not all in one elderly home 46 residents of the Nuestra Señora del Rosario home in Spain died after receiving the shot. https://sevilla.abc.es/andalucia/cadiz/sevi-brote-residencia... I can't find the article I read on the 23 in Norway weeks ago which stated the name of the home at this moment. Perhaps they were mistaken and retracted. I think it is safe to say anyone who claims no one has…

> 46 residents of the Nuestra Señora del Rosario home in Spain died after receiving the shot.

Ouch. I would suspect some procedural error there, but who knows?

Back to Norway. I searched a bit more for articles about the 23. No evidence they were concentrated like that. All of them were over 80, most over 90, all of them were extremely frail to begin with. In those circumstances, it is to be expected that many would die under any circumstance, and for sure, the side effects of the vaccine may have pushed some over the edge. As of 23 February, the number has risen to 102. Health authorities keep a close eye on these numbers, of course, but still see no reason for alarm.

> I think it is safe to say anyone who claims no one has died after receiving the shot is not being honest.

Not honest, or not thinking it through. In the discussion elsewhere in this thread, there seems to be some confusion due to the fact that someone is talking only about those enrolled in the trials, while others are talking about all vaccinated people.

Re: Why You Should Take Any Vaccine

#69

Post by hanche » Thu, Mar 04, 2021, 7:33 AM UTC

protomyth wrote: post #30

I will say if you get the Moderna, that second shot is seriously painful. We had a pretty universal pain in the arm followed by chills followed by hot flashes then a day of feeling like you are walking through water. It was two days of crud. If you have a choice get Pfizer instead. The people taking that don't seem to suffer.

Our hospital here in Trondheim, Norway did mass vaccinate about one-third of their employees in one day (Astra-Zeneca, I believe). In the next couple of days, the number on sick leave was nearly high enough to be a serious problem. They have now learned to stagger their vaccinations a bit more. Nothing dramatic in that, but the side effects are quite real for enough people.

Re: Why You Should Take Any Vaccine

#70

Post by phnofive » Thu, Mar 04, 2021, 7:48 AM UTC

protomyth wrote: post #30

I will say if you get the Moderna, that second shot is seriously painful. We had a pretty universal pain in the arm followed by chills followed by hot flashes then a day of feeling like you are walking through water. It was two days of crud. If you have a choice get Pfizer instead. The people taking that don't seem to suffer.

In yet another failure of messaging from public health authorities, individuals such as yourself are surprised by the intense but entirely normal immune response to an antigen your body was just trained to fight.

There is a reasonable question about the necessity of that second dose, however.