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U.S. jobless numbers surge as worsening Covid-19 pandemic hurts businesses

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Re: U.S. jobless numbers surge as worsening Covid-19 pandemic hurts businesses

#61

Post by triceratops »

centimeter wrote: post #20

I think it's disingenuous how all of these news articles phrase it as if the pandemic itself was responsible for hurting these businesses. In reality, the effect of covid alone on business would be very small for most industries. The thing that's actually destroying these businesses (and the middle-class wealth behind them) is the government reaction to the pandemic , not the pandemic itself.

More accurately the government non-reaction to the pandemic. Patchwork of confusing lockdown rules, poorly observed, and next to no assistance for those truly in need. We got the worst of both worlds: death and economic destruction.

Re: U.S. jobless numbers surge as worsening Covid-19 pandemic hurts businesses

#63

Post by acct776 »

dillondoyle wrote: post #56
throwaway5752 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bezos literally got his phone hacked by foreign intelligence services for being supportive of the party that wants to fix this situation. He's benefiting because Amazon is well run and well positioned for this. He couldn't control how the response was managed and he doesn't control tax policy. Do a better job of blaming the people who are actually at fault, or you are abetting them.

Long post alert... -- If Bezos's and the other mega billionaires wanted to truly change the tax code for a top .0001% tax rate or whatever they could almost certainly get it done. How much does Bezos spend on lobbying (not Amazon specific interests)? Virtually a 25 cents to him - .000086 Adelson spent something like $500mm over a decade and he probably has 75% or more of the 'credit' for changing pro-Isreal policy. B…

That's not his fuckin job!

Re: U.S. jobless numbers surge as worsening Covid-19 pandemic hurts businesses

#64

Post by ravenstine »

Server6 wrote: post #54
ravenstine wrote: post #33

Every day I read a different article about how many jobs there are, and then I read one about how bad unemployment is, then I read one about how the economy is booming, and then I read one about how the economy is declining. This is clown world, and I don't know how we've sustained it this far. Everything seems to be in conflict. Somehow investors have a seemingly irrational confidence in the market. What is going on…

The US economy appears to have bifurcated, which in my opinion is the root cause of a lot of our social unrest issues. The white collar/upper class is doing just fine, hasn't been laid off, and has been minimally affected by COVID. This group is also responsible for most of our economic output - which is turn driving a disconnected wallstreet. The lower/working class has been completely obliterated. Though these peop…

> It's no wonder these people are angry and rallying behind a psudo-fascist like Trump.

Say what you want about Trump, and there's a lot bad to say about him, but at least he pretends to listen to the blue collar class. People need to understand this because most of his voters are not the radical MAGA people. If those voters don't believe they have a voice now, and arguably they don't have that voice, that increases the chances of more fractionation, more violence, and so on.

They should be pissed, by the way. They've either lost their jobs or had to continue delivering food or whatever during a pandemic for the white collar workers whose jobs are primarily nonsense. Society rewards people who invent problems, the digital duct tapers who fix those problems, the countless managers and supervisors to wrangle those duct tapers, and governance structures like Human Resources, but pays shit for actual work. Even if you are white collar, depending on what you're doing you may get paid only modestly if you're solving a real problem.

Something in us is telling us that we can't allow actual problems to be solved because, if we solved them, we'd all be out of things to do. And that's one problem we don't know how to fix.

Re: U.S. jobless numbers surge as worsening Covid-19 pandemic hurts businesses

#65

Post by maxerickson »

zaroth wrote: post #41
maxerickson wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The government can just keep borrowing until the currency collapses, there is no need to actually pay the debt down.

The word “need” presupposes a particular outcome. You don’t “need” to breathe, unless you want to live. The universe doesn’t “need” to keep existing. So in language, when we say we need something, it’s a need for a particular and often presumptive / implied outcome. In this case the purpose of the government is to provide for the general welfare of its citizens. The value of the US dollar depends on the “full faith a…

You need more money sloshing around as the economy grows or you get deflation.

Really, I'm gonna post 'borrowing is fine' in reply to lots of messages that act like the US government is running a household budget.

Re: U.S. jobless numbers surge as worsening Covid-19 pandemic hurts businesses

#66

Post by maxerickson »

dougmwne wrote: post #57
maxerickson wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's not lock downs in the US. There are some rules about how businesses can operate, but people aren't locked down. Here there is no in person dining. I think it would be pretty interesting to compare their revenues from 2019 to the periods during the pandemic where they have been open. My impression is that the 2020 numbers would be pretty weak, but I don't know.

I am aware of there being recent regional stay at home orders in California. I believe that is usually what people mean when they use the term "lockdown," at least outside of the Chinese context where they had much more forcefully kept people in their homes. In addition, since we have a global economy, COVID restrictions in other countries could affect US jobs.

Yes, it's silly to call an order to stay home (unless you need food or to go to work or feel like exercising) a lockdown. And then the other side of it is the (very lax) enforcement. People leaving home for other reasons aren't getting fined or otherwise punished.

Re: U.S. jobless numbers surge as worsening Covid-19 pandemic hurts businesses

#67

Post by throwaway5752 »

tw04 wrote: post #53
throwaway5752 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bezos literally got his phone hacked by foreign intelligence services for being supportive of the party that wants to fix this situation. He's benefiting because Amazon is well run and well positioned for this. He couldn't control how the response was managed and he doesn't control tax policy. Do a better job of blaming the people who are actually at fault, or you are abetting them.

Amazon has been using tax havens for years and years. Amazon has been actively preventing unionization of employees. Jeff Bezos has personally donated to both political parties. Don't confuse his personal dislike of Trump with some sort of undying support of the Democratic party or their tax policies.

Of course he donates to both political parties, he's not a moron. Of course he uses the most advantageous legal tax strategy available. Almost every US company prevents union organization (nothing they've done comes close to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Walmart#Labor_uni..., and I wouldn't be surprised if companies astroturfed union initiatives in competitors) He is a private citizen and just because he's wealthy it's not his job to fix the US financial system.

I don't have time or inclination to rehash it all so https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hack_of_Jeff_Bezos%27s_phone, but he owns WaPo and the hacking was probably retribution re Khashoggi. There was nothing done about it because "somebody" didn't like the WaPo editorial stance.

Re: U.S. jobless numbers surge as worsening Covid-19 pandemic hurts businesses

#68

Post by TerminalWarrior »

cft wrote: post #39
scohesc wrote: post #3

Man, it's so frustrating seeing all these businesses shutting down (smaller ones are closing for good), meanwhile I'm sure Bezos and the Silicon crew are reporting record profits this year through food deliveries and amazon purchases. I sometimes find it very _very_ hard to not see this all a transfer of wealth from the middle/lower classes to the upper classes - either calculated beforehand or just being taken advan…

We are jumping into fascism 2.0: - Suppression of ability to speak freely - One party system - The executive organizations of the party agenda are the largest monopolies (instead of Krupp and Messerschmitt we have Google and Amazon for now). I know I will get a lot of downvotes, but i hope it helps at least a couple of people here to know they aren't alone in thinking this now.

Just wait till they crash the USD and get us all on digital currency USD 2.0.

LOL, this world is going to shit, I blame excessive privilege and social media.

Re: U.S. jobless numbers surge as worsening Covid-19 pandemic hurts businesses

#69

Post by TerminalWarrior »

ravenstine wrote: post #64
Server6 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US economy appears to have bifurcated, which in my opinion is the root cause of a lot of our social unrest issues. The white collar/upper class is doing just fine, hasn't been laid off, and has been minimally affected by COVID. This group is also responsible for most of our economic output - which is turn driving a disconnected wallstreet. The lower/working class has been completely obliterated. Though these peop…

> It's no wonder these people are angry and rallying behind a psudo-fascist like Trump. Say what you want about Trump, and there's a lot bad to say about him, but at least he pretends to listen to the blue collar class. People need to understand this because most of his voters are not the radical MAGA people. If those voters don't believe they have a voice now, and arguably they don't have that voice, that increases…

Robert Reich's book, The System did a GREAT job explaining this. He talks about how Trump was the only one even pretending to listen. Now, hilariously, instead of taking his lead the liberals have decided to call 1/2 the county raciest and sexist.

I hate Trump and always have, but I see what he did and why it worked. I also see why insisting that 1/2 the country only liked him because they are raciest is just making things worse. LOL, this country deserves to fail.

Re: U.S. jobless numbers surge as worsening Covid-19 pandemic hurts businesses

#70

Post by maxfurman »

scohesc wrote: post #3

Man, it's so frustrating seeing all these businesses shutting down (smaller ones are closing for good), meanwhile I'm sure Bezos and the Silicon crew are reporting record profits this year through food deliveries and amazon purchases. I sometimes find it very _very_ hard to not see this all a transfer of wealth from the middle/lower classes to the upper classes - either calculated beforehand or just being taken advan…

This absolutely is a transfer of wealth up to the billionaire class. Money that would have been put into the hands of waiters, dishwashers, barbers, and bartenders is now being spent on Grubhub and Amazon.

The remedy for this is a transfer in the opposite direction - direct stimulus payments. There's a reason McConnell fought so hard against those.

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