Why do people resist the idea that carbs are worse than fat? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why do people resist the idea that carbs are worse than fat?

#61

Post by dkarl » Fri, May 20, 2011, 2:41 PM UTC

matwood wrote: post #47

jpk wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Related to your key #1, this[1] talk by Robert Lustig (who's work has seen some exposure on HN in the past) has a pretty good run-down of how some of the carbohydrates are metabolized. Specifically, he points to fructose as the culprit when it comes to obesity. I recommend watching the whole thing, but skip to about 36:00 to see the biochemistry. [1] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM

Sigh. A good criticism of Lustigs demonizing fructose: http://www.alanaragonblog.com/2010/01/29/the-bitter-truth-ab... Key takeaway that Lustig ignores - USDA numbers by the way: Total energy intake in 1970 averaged 2172 kcal. By 2007 this hiked up to 2775 kcal, a 603 kcal increase.

Intake is the key point in the entire argument for me. The dose makes the poison, and at this point we're arguing over whether it is healthier to poison ourselves with excessive calories from fat or excessive calories from carbs. If you don't eat too much, you don't have a stake in the argument at all.

Re: Why do people resist the idea that carbs are worse than fat?

#62

Post by jinushaun » Fri, May 20, 2011, 2:42 PM UTC

terio wrote: post #45

jradakov wrote: post #27

That's funny. There are many studies showing that vegetarians live longer, more healthy lives than omnivores.

Many vegetarians eat some food from animal sources, like eggs, milk, yogurt, etc. On the other hand, I have heard cases of people that tried to be pure vegan and had serious health problems.

Veganism isn't a diet. It's a lifestyle. And a poor one at that. It's the anti-paleo diet, because you can't be vegan without modern technology and supplements. There are just too many gaps in nutrition.

Re: Why do people resist the idea that carbs are worse than fat?

#63

Post by mentat » Fri, May 20, 2011, 2:42 PM UTC

matwood wrote: post #17

I resist the idea that carbs (and HFCS for matter) need to be demonized. The article mentions peoples tendencies, but one tendency the anti-carb crowd relies on is how people want to find a smoking gun or silver bullet solution. The article doesn't really do much to prove anything since rarely did the elite eat the same thing as the peasants. Throughout history kings and queens usually ate much better than the peasan…

"Throughout history kings and queens usually ate much better than the peasants."

Those terms post date this by thousands of years. Please cite research that supports this statement.

Re: Why do people resist the idea that carbs are worse than fat?

#64

Post by jdminhbg » Fri, May 20, 2011, 2:43 PM UTC

matwood wrote: post #49

DavidBishop wrote: post #33

People resist the idea because the answer is too simple. "Fats" are better than "Carbs". So lard is better than a banana? Ugh. It's not the broad category of "Fats" vs "Carbs". It's the TYPE of food. Eat good food. Period. Not something made in a factory. Twinkies: out. Soda: out. Standard pizza with refined grains and loads of cheese: out. Eat healthy food: the right meats, fruits, vegetables, whole grains and lots…

I totally agree, the problem is that it's harder for people to eat healthy than simply pick a single thing and demonize it. Plus, telling people to eat healthy doesn't sell a lot of books.

I'm pretty sure Michael Pollan's bank account disagrees with your second sentence.

Re: Why do people resist the idea that carbs are worse than fat?

#65

Post by Alex3917 » Fri, May 20, 2011, 2:44 PM UTC

joshklein wrote: post #16

I think there are a number of issues: 1 - People relate fat the nutrient to fat the body type because they share the word "fat". Not much to do there. In high school I was taught that carbohydrates were "energy" and fat was "waste". People should probably be taught the right way our biological systems operate. 2 - Medical authorities have worked with the best science they had available at the time, and are almost alw…

"People relate fat the nutrient to fat the body type because they share the word 'fat'."

That's like when people think that alcohol makes you depressed because it's a depressant.

Re: Why do people resist the idea that carbs are worse than fat?

#66

Post by lukifer » Fri, May 20, 2011, 2:45 PM UTC

forensic wrote: post #14

The "fat is evil" thing that happened in the latter half of the 20th century is going to go down as the biggest scientific fuck up ever. The very people who were given all the authority and trust, and who were supposed to protect human life, actively killed people by pushing carbs as healthy and fats as unhealthy. They directly caused spiking obesity, the #1 medical issue in our society. Repeat after me: The biggest…

> Repeat after me: The biggest [] issue in our society was directly caused by the [] authorities.

I know you're just turning a phrase, but the irony here amused me more than a little. ;)

Re: Why do people resist the idea that carbs are worse than fat?

#67

Post by DavidBishop » Fri, May 20, 2011, 2:48 PM UTC

jdminhbg wrote: post #64

matwood wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I totally agree, the problem is that it's harder for people to eat healthy than simply pick a single thing and demonize it. Plus, telling people to eat healthy doesn't sell a lot of books.

I'm pretty sure Michael Pollan's bank account disagrees with your second sentence.

True, but I think the sentiment is correct at least in selling food. It's hard to get rich selling spinach, but it's easy to get rich selling Sugar-Frosted Excitement Pops - now made with whole grain-like substances!

Re: Why do people resist the idea that carbs are worse than fat?

#68

Post by warmfuzzykitten » Fri, May 20, 2011, 2:49 PM UTC

terio wrote: post #12

hvs wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You just used the words "potato", "noodles", "rice", and "flour" in a distinctly negative tone. Those are some of my favorite foods, preferable doused in butter. And I'm 6'1", 170 lbs.

Fair enough, but, like the article points out, personal experience, or case studies, doesn't count as scientific proof here. My own experience is that I can eat as much butter (real butter), bacon, olive oil, and other fats as I want and my weight won't change. But as soon as I start to eat bread and potatoes, I can easily gain 10 pounds. This is a very complex issue. For every single person there are many factors in…

Yes, of course. You are following the Atkins diet, basically all fat and protein, very limited carbs. This is an effective way to maintain or lose weight and it's been shown to have positive cardiovascular effects.

On the other hand, the best studied and most effective diet for weight loss and cardiovascular health is the Ornish diet, which is almost the exact opposite: no meat, no fat, lots of vegetables, rice and non-fat yogurt. Plus exercise and meditation. Both work and they are on opposite sides of the fat/no-fat spectrum.

(My own experience is that cardiologists are eager to recommend the Ornish diet and don't really believe the studies favoring the Atkins diet. Doctors are people. They believe what the culture believes.)

The success of both of these diets may suggest to some that nutrition is too complex, that all people are different, that different people react well to different diets, etc. In other words, don't listen to science and follow your gut. That path leads to your gut hanging over your belt.

The simpler explanation is to look at what both the Atkins and Ornish diets restrict: "Sugar and simple sugar derivatives -- honey, molasses, corn syrup, and high-fructose syrup" (WebMD).

The accumulating evidence is not pointing to carbs as the culprit, it's pointing to sugar.

Re: Why do people resist the idea that carbs are worse than fat?

#69

Post by bgentry » Fri, May 20, 2011, 2:49 PM UTC

utefan001 wrote: post #54

forensic wrote: post #14

The "fat is evil" thing that happened in the latter half of the 20th century is going to go down as the biggest scientific fuck up ever. The very people who were given all the authority and trust, and who were supposed to protect human life, actively killed people by pushing carbs as healthy and fats as unhealthy. They directly caused spiking obesity, the #1 medical issue in our society. Repeat after me: The biggest…

I was in Brazil in 1995 and one of the Brazilian girls I was eating with mentioned she is not going to eat the pasta / carbs because she is trying to lose weight. I thought she had no idea what she was talking about, what she needed to do was cut out the fat. Turns out I was wrong.

Not really, it turns out the carbs from glucose (pasta) are actually pretty good for you. If she also cut the carbs by removing fruit juice and soda from her diet, then it would have been the right approach.

For more info, watch the Lustig video already linked in this thread.

Re: Why do people resist the idea that carbs are worse than fat?

#70

Post by afterburner » Fri, May 20, 2011, 2:50 PM UTC

sudonim wrote: post #37

Gupie wrote: post #31

Simple advise - don't over-eat

That's simplistic advice. Food additives like High Fructose Corn Syrup cause you to crave more food even though you're calorically fine. If you listen to what your body says while eating poorly, you will over eat. http://www.wellnessresources.com/weight/articles/high_fructo...

Did you implicitly define overeating as eating past the point where you stop being hungry? Because that's not necessarily what the parent comment meant. They could have meant eating too much for your activity level.