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Gene Wolfe Turned Science Fiction into High Art (2019)

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Re: Gene Wolfe Turned Science Fiction into High Art (2019)

#61

Post by m463 »

NOGDP wrote: post #38
saberience wrote: post #7

For all those who are saying now "Who's Gene Wolfe??" I strongly, strongly, urge you to read his tetralogy "The Book of The New Sun," it's one of the finest sci-fi/fantasy series I've ever read and I have a pretty damn critical taste when it comes to literature. (not trying to sound snobby by the way, I just don't praise books like these lightly or without good reason) So I love Lord of the Rings, the Silmarillion, M…

Haven't read Gene Wolfe (yet), but I can strongly recommend 'Hyperion Cantos' by Dan Simmons.

I think the series sort of dragged on after the first one. But I read it a long time ago, maybe I should try again.

Re: Gene Wolfe Turned Science Fiction into High Art (2019)

#62

Post by Pamar »

saberience wrote: post #7

For all those who are saying now "Who's Gene Wolfe??" I strongly, strongly, urge you to read his tetralogy "The Book of The New Sun," it's one of the finest sci-fi/fantasy series I've ever read and I have a pretty damn critical taste when it comes to literature. (not trying to sound snobby by the way, I just don't praise books like these lightly or without good reason) So I love Lord of the Rings, the Silmarillion, M…

I have only one upvote to give ...

Re: Gene Wolfe Turned Science Fiction into High Art (2019)

#63

Post by m463 »

Finnucane wrote: post #53
Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #47

I have read every single thing Wolfe wrote (even the limited-edition chapbooks), and I feel I should warn potential readers: he only had about a decade-long run as a writer of high art in the 1970s. I strongly recommend the early Wolfe, but the later Wolfe is a lesser author. In that decade, Wolfe produced three large works ( The Fifth Head of Cerberus , Peace and The Book of the New Sun ) and a number of short stori…

The thing that changed for Gene was that he no longer had a day job. When he was working, he'd get up at 5 am to writer for two hours before leaving for work. The whole of the Book of the New Sun was written that way. Which meant there was a certain commercial pressure to sell books, and I think his consistency flagged. I worked at Tor in the mid-to-late 1990s. I don't think that Hartwell just accepted anything he se…

that's interesting. I wonder if the stimulus of a day at work with people and interactions and pressure and more could make something more meaningful come out.

Sort of like a little external entropy added to the random number generator.

Re: Gene Wolfe Turned Science Fiction into High Art (2019)

#64

Post by Pamar »

Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #54
bouvin wrote: post #18

Gene Wolfe is one of my favourite authors, and his works more than most reward careful (re-)readings. To that end, I can highly recommend Alzabo Soup [1], a podcast delving into first Book of the New Sun (and currently Book of the Long Sun) in very deep detail (it took them a couple of years, with weekly 2 hour episodes to make it through BoNW). I reread along with the podcasts, and it was well worth it. [1] https://…

The podcast and the YouTube videos on Wolfe really make me rue Google's modern algorithm that obscures 1990s and early-millennium content. Pretty much all the mysteries of the BotNS were elucidated on the Gene Wolfe mailing list (which was archived) and a handful of fan websites. It would be much more efficient use of a reader's time to go through these instead of podcasts or videos, which aren't information-dense me…

Could you be kindly offer pointers to the aforementioned archives+fan websites, please?

Re: Gene Wolfe Turned Science Fiction into High Art (2019)

#65

Post by 7thaccount »

sdepablos wrote: post #21
saberience wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed with Le Guin, I love the Earthsea books, which are more than simple fantasy and have a beautiful spiritual and philosophical quality.

Agree with both, but in the case of Le Guin I clearly prefer the Hainish Cycle, with classics as The Left Hand of Darkness, The Disposesed or The Word for World is Forest

The left-hand of darkness was strange, but somehow spiritually uplifting in a way I have trouble expressing.

Re: Gene Wolfe Turned Science Fiction into High Art (2019)

#66

Post by nemo1618 »

markc wrote: post #48

I've read lots of SciFi over the years, some of it challenging. I can read hard books. Back in the 80's I started seeing so many raves for TBotNS that I went out and bought them all at once. About 80 pages into the first one, I was turned off, bored really. They sat on my shelf for a decade at least, before I just gave them away. My question is this: how long did it take you to "get into" this series. Should I have p…

My experience: I read the entirety of the first two books, shrugged, and stopped there. Felt like I was investing a lot of effort into something that wasn't paying off, and didn't seem likely to pay off in the future. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Re: Gene Wolfe Turned Science Fiction into High Art (2019)

#67

Post by filoeleven »

Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #47

I have read every single thing Wolfe wrote (even the limited-edition chapbooks), and I feel I should warn potential readers: he only had about a decade-long run as a writer of high art in the 1970s. I strongly recommend the early Wolfe, but the later Wolfe is a lesser author. In that decade, Wolfe produced three large works ( The Fifth Head of Cerberus , Peace and The Book of the New Sun ) and a number of short stori…

I read in some interview with him or some piece about him that one of people’s biggest criticisms of New Sun was the elaborate prose. So he consciously chose to write more simply after that.

In my own view, Long Sun is as good as New Sun: I don’t think the simpler prose detracts from it, it fits the tale and Silk’s personality (to say more threatens spoilers). We see a huge yet mostly stable set of characters evolve throughout the tale. Compare with New Sun which is mostly just Severian wandering around, having adventures and occasional encounters with characters from earlier. They are very different stories. After reading both series many times, Long Sun grew to be my favorite. This could change again.

I agree that Fifth Head is fantastic, but when I tried to reread Peace I couldn’t get through it (it was apparently his own favorite). And I agree with your assessment of his post-2000 novels. I did enjoy The Sorcerer’s House and The Land Across, but neither is calling out to be read again, and their details are vague in my mind.

Re: Gene Wolfe Turned Science Fiction into High Art (2019)

#68

Post by LgWoodenBadger »

Gene Wolfe's short-form stories are magnificent, and in some cases exceed his long-form novels/novellas.

There are numerous collections available, some focus on horror, others literary sf, and others just an all-around mix. I can't recommend them enough.

Often they include background regarding what he wrote, or why, or who he wrote it for, where it was first published, and what not.

For novels that don't get as much acclaim as the BotNS, or FHoC, I highly recommend the Soldier series. More wonderful mystery hidden in plain sight.

Re: Gene Wolfe Turned Science Fiction into High Art (2019)

#69

Post by smogcutter »

Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #50
smogcutter wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can see how you get there, but strongly disagree with that assessment of BotNS. It’s far from an endorsement of torture and abuse. Master Gurloes is a deeply broken man. Severian’s childhood trauma colors the entire story, especially his relationships with women. Part of Severian’s maturation throughout the books is his slow abandonment of his life and identity as a torturer. To get anything out of BotNS you need t…

Even if Severian has become a better man by the end of the BotNS, in the coda to the sequence The Urth of the New Sun he is still keen on bedding the women he comes across. From reviews and fora discussions, it is this constant interest of the male protagonist in casual sex that has turned off many female readers. Sure, the encounters are now consensual, but Severian remains a horndog, and it leads those readers to a…

That’s a different claim than parent, but I see where you’re coming from.

I’d argue that Wolfe’s other work shows that even in Urth that aspect is more about Severian than Wolfe. Long Sun for one certainly takes a very different tone, but you could argue it’s the work of a more mature author.

Re: Gene Wolfe Turned Science Fiction into High Art (2019)

#70

Post by Ice_cream_suit »

I have read and still read a lot of science fiction, literature (both ancient and modern).

I have tried to read Gene Wolfe several times. I must confess that all I obtained from his works was a sense of profound ennui.

I am prepared to admit that the fault is likely to be entirely mine, considering how many people admire Mr Wolfe's writing.

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