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The Makeup of the CCP Elite

chinadatalab.ucsd.edu

61–70 of 97 posts

Re: The Makeup of the CCP Elite

#61
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it a good thing to have more efficient dictators?

The best system of government is a benevolent dictatorship. If you can’t make it less dictatorial, at least make it more benevolent.

A benevolent dictatorship is great for a creative project. As a government it is a dead end and never remains "benevolent" for long.

Re: The Makeup of the CCP Elite

#62

The CCP is terrible but there’s no question intellectually they outclass the United States’ geriatric leadership. Much more STEM too. We love our lawyers and business folk, don’t we?

Let's not forget that Wilson was a Princeton Professor and Hoover was an engineer. (Wilson appointed KKK members to his cabinet, screened a white supremacist film in the white house, invaded and occupied the soviet union for two years; hoover treated society as a machine that he would "tweak the knobs to try to optimize" - we all know how that turned out) And Coolidge, a lawyer, was arguably the "least bad" president…

Just to clarify for those reading this, Wilson studied political science and history, and went to law school. He wasn't a "STEM" professor.

Re: The Makeup of the CCP Elite

#63
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shou'en Li's answer to this Quora query[1] is insightful. > In China, if you want to be a leader, you have to start from the grassroots level to accumulate rich government work experiences after ascending nine levels of posts (section chief, deputy division chief, division chief, deputy director of general office, director of general office, vice-minister, minister, deputy-state leader, state leader). With such exper…

That sounds like the system's ideal - but is that how most people become, say, deputy state leaders? Or can you pay your way in, advance through nepotism, or blackmailing, or mutual corruption, etc?

One reason why Chinese bureaucrats are constantly rotated and not allowed to serve in their homeland is to prevent those.

Re: The Makeup of the CCP Elite

#64
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, looking at it from a game-theory perspective: It might just mean that you have to be #1 in your local communist party to move up to the regional one, and you have to be #1 in the regional one to move up to the national one. Your chances of qualifying for each round up are inversely proportional to the number of people you're competing against, and their abilities. In such a system, you're better off going to (o…

I am not exactly well-versed in Chinese culture but it seems like locals would have an advantage over carpet-baggers given my paltry understanding of guanxi.

Carpet baggers have their own virtue that is a lack of strong power base and personal attachment. So the expectation is that they are less corrupt or preferential.

Re: The Makeup of the CCP Elite

#65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Power corrupts. The only way to make a government more benevolent is to make it weaker.

The governments of the feudal era, let alone the night watch states of the 1800, were certainly more corrupt than the more centralized nations of China and the US. Disproving this hypothesis that I hear too much.

Were they? Did the feudal era monarchies exert control over foreign governments in far away continents? The feudal era was marked by constant churn and shifting allegiances and there was always somewhere to escape to. Many escaped to the Americas, coincidentally, where they did eventually launch revolutions against the English and Spanish monarchy, which grew quite powerful and corrupt during the Imperial era. At any rate, the entire design of the U.S. is to prevent corruption through decentralization of power. That includes division of power among the Federal and State governments as well as the several branches of government. To the extent that experiment has worked, it has done so through the successful application of those principles. To the extent that it hasn't, it has been when too much power has rested in too few hands for too long.

Re: The Makeup of the CCP Elite

#66
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah we fought a big war over it 160 years ago. 600,000 people died.

I think it's kinda cute (but mostly sickening) that far left ideologues and far right ideologues can at least come together and agree that the Civil War was not actually about slavery (despite every fact contradicting that view).

I think the reasons for the elites who initiated the war and the people who actually fought the war were quite different, but that is so often the case in world history.

Re: The Makeup of the CCP Elite

#67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The governments of the feudal era, let alone the night watch states of the 1800, were certainly more corrupt than the more centralized nations of China and the US. Disproving this hypothesis that I hear too much.

Were they? Did the feudal era monarchies exert control over foreign governments in far away continents? The feudal era was marked by constant churn and shifting allegiances and there was always somewhere to escape to. Many escaped to the Americas, coincidentally, where they did eventually launch revolutions against the English and Spanish monarchy, which grew quite powerful and corrupt during the Imperial era. At any…

Yes they objectively were and yes late feudal lords did exert control over far away lands (early ones as well like Charlemagne and even Charles Martel to a lesser extent.) Also the design of the US is to find a balance between a strong federal government and state governments. That is why the issue has dominated our politics, in one form the other, and we’ve had a two party system based around it, ever since.

Re: The Makeup of the CCP Elite

#68
post #11

https://sci-hub.do/10.1017/S0305741000045495 > The Hakka are an impoverished and stigmatized subgroup of Han Chinese whose settlements are scattered from Jiangxi to Sichuan. Socialist revolution meshed well with the Hakka tradition of militant dissent, so that their 3 per cent of the mainland population has been three times more likely than other Han to hold high position. Six of the nine Soviet guerrilla bases were…

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Re: The Makeup of the CCP Elite

#69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's not forget that Wilson was a Princeton Professor and Hoover was an engineer. (Wilson appointed KKK members to his cabinet, screened a white supremacist film in the white house, invaded and occupied the soviet union for two years; hoover treated society as a machine that he would "tweak the knobs to try to optimize" - we all know how that turned out) And Coolidge, a lawyer, was arguably the "least bad" president…

Just to clarify for those reading this, Wilson studied political science and history, and went to law school. He wasn't a "STEM" professor.

Parent comment had three parts. First part was about intelligence in general, second part drew attention to stem in particular, third part was about lawyers and businessmen. I structured my response with deliberate parallelism.

Re: The Makeup of the CCP Elite

#70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Were they? Did the feudal era monarchies exert control over foreign governments in far away continents? The feudal era was marked by constant churn and shifting allegiances and there was always somewhere to escape to. Many escaped to the Americas, coincidentally, where they did eventually launch revolutions against the English and Spanish monarchy, which grew quite powerful and corrupt during the Imperial era. At any…

Yes they objectively were and yes late feudal lords did exert control over far away lands (early ones as well like Charlemagne and even Charles Martel to a lesser extent.) Also the design of the US is to find a balance between a strong federal government and state governments. That is why the issue has dominated our politics, in one form the other, and we’ve had a two party system based around it, ever since.

I don't think you understand the meaning of the word "objective". By what objective measure were they more corrupt than the CCP or the U.S.?

Charlemagne exhibited control and influence over a smaller chunk of Europe than the current E.U. The U.S. can almost bankrupt any country at will by freezing it out of the banking system and imposing sanctions.

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