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Judge dismisses Apple’s “theft” claims in Epic Games lawsuit

arstechnica.com

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Re: Judge dismisses Apple’s “theft” claims in Epic Games lawsuit

#61

Post by cygx »

m00x wrote: post #54
zigzag312 wrote: post #41

I hope Epic succeeds. Apple has managed to create a virtual ecosystem and they have absolute control over it. Yes, they did it by creating a great product at the right time (at the rise of much improved telecommunications technology). With a combination of HW, OS and digital store they created more than just a product, they have created a platform. Based on that platform, with a big contribution from third party deve…

I think people don't understand the perspective here because it's being normalized by all the big players. To make it simpler to understand, apply this system to your computer. What if you couldn't install what you wanted and everything would have to go through a protected store? If the platform dislikes your app, they could just remove it from the store and no one could get it. It adds a huge gate in front of the ha…

To play devil's advocate: PC aside, isn't this business as usual for gaming platforms?

Re: Judge dismisses Apple’s “theft” claims in Epic Games lawsuit

#62

Post by turtlebits »

intricatedetail wrote: post #17
thehappypm wrote: post #13

I find it hard to side with anyone but Apple here. Apple built not only the marketplace but the actual devices themselves. Apple is giving developers a marketplace of users with powerful processors, fast internet connections, and credit cards already connected. Installing an app is easier on a smartphone than any desktop. A big cut is well worth deserved, and the contract terms seem pretty fair. I can't see how Epic…

You said you side with Apple, but why? Better analogy is that Apple is a country with a single party, no elections, that dictates who can make money and how much tax they pay. These ecosystems need regulation to enable multiple stores and open APIs.

I don't necessarily agree with App store policies, especially when it comes to transparency/consistency of decisions, but you can always choose not to operate/do business in said country.

Re: Judge dismisses Apple’s “theft” claims in Epic Games lawsuit

#63

Post by rbecker »

nickff wrote: post #57
m00x wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think people don't understand the perspective here because it's being normalized by all the big players. To make it simpler to understand, apply this system to your computer. What if you couldn't install what you wanted and everything would have to go through a protected store? If the platform dislikes your app, they could just remove it from the store and no one could get it. It adds a huge gate in front of the ha…

The problem is not that your premise is too complicated for others to understand, it's that the 'walled garden' is a trade-off which people disagree about. Walled gardens are safer, and usually have some implicit or explicit quality guarantee (like the Nintendo seal of quality). Open platforms allow for more flexibility and innovation by new entrants. On top of this disagreement, we have the meta-issue of whether bus…

> Walled gardens are safer, and usually have some implicit or explicit quality guarantee (like the Nintendo seal of quality).

And consumers who want to limit themselves to the safety of Apple's app store are free to do so. But Apple goes a step beyond this, and prevents consumers who don't want to be locked-in this way, from using "unauthorized" stores or apps.

It's false to claim that the only way to offer safety is to take away user freedom.

Re: Judge dismisses Apple’s “theft” claims in Epic Games lawsuit

#64

Post by FriendlyNormie »

zigzag312 wrote: post #41

I hope Epic succeeds. Apple has managed to create a virtual ecosystem and they have absolute control over it. Yes, they did it by creating a great product at the right time (at the rise of much improved telecommunications technology). With a combination of HW, OS and digital store they created more than just a product, they have created a platform. Based on that platform, with a big contribution from third party deve…

No post body was provided.

Re: Judge dismisses Apple’s “theft” claims in Epic Games lawsuit

#65

Post by danbolt »

zigzag312 wrote: post #41

I hope Epic succeeds. Apple has managed to create a virtual ecosystem and they have absolute control over it. Yes, they did it by creating a great product at the right time (at the rise of much improved telecommunications technology). With a combination of HW, OS and digital store they created more than just a product, they have created a platform. Based on that platform, with a big contribution from third party deve…

> this ecosystem has outgrown Apple. It's got so big, that Apple's contribution is only a part of it.

I feel like apart from 2-3 clients for other web services (eg: Twitter, Slack, etc.) I rarely purchase or download any apps. The last time I can remember installing one was the contact tracing app for where I live.

I think I use the iPhone more as an appliance than a general-purpose computer. If I wanted the latter, I’d buy something else.

Re: Judge dismisses Apple’s “theft” claims in Epic Games lawsuit

#66

Post by nickff »

rbecker wrote: post #63
nickff wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is not that your premise is too complicated for others to understand, it's that the 'walled garden' is a trade-off which people disagree about. Walled gardens are safer, and usually have some implicit or explicit quality guarantee (like the Nintendo seal of quality). Open platforms allow for more flexibility and innovation by new entrants. On top of this disagreement, we have the meta-issue of whether bus…

> Walled gardens are safer, and usually have some implicit or explicit quality guarantee (like the Nintendo seal of quality). And consumers who want to limit themselves to the safety of Apple's app store are free to do so. But Apple goes a step beyond this, and prevents consumers who don't want to be locked-in this way, from using "unauthorized" stores or apps. It's false to claim that the only way to offer safety is…

>"It's false to claim that the only way to offer safety is to take away user freedom."

Well, I didn't claim it was the only way, but it does seem like the simplest and possibly the safest way.

Re: Judge dismisses Apple’s “theft” claims in Epic Games lawsuit

#67

Post by danbolt »

m00x wrote: post #54
zigzag312 wrote: post #41

I hope Epic succeeds. Apple has managed to create a virtual ecosystem and they have absolute control over it. Yes, they did it by creating a great product at the right time (at the rise of much improved telecommunications technology). With a combination of HW, OS and digital store they created more than just a product, they have created a platform. Based on that platform, with a big contribution from third party deve…

I think people don't understand the perspective here because it's being normalized by all the big players. To make it simpler to understand, apply this system to your computer. What if you couldn't install what you wanted and everything would have to go through a protected store? If the platform dislikes your app, they could just remove it from the store and no one could get it. It adds a huge gate in front of the ha…

I mentioned this in another comment, but I don’t really think of my interactions with my smartphone as the same as my computer. I might do some similar things with both, but I think I treat a phone much more like an appliance these days.

Because of that, I find I still purchase iPhones, but never Apple computers anymore.

Re: Judge dismisses Apple’s “theft” claims in Epic Games lawsuit

#68

Post by cdash »

cygx wrote: post #61
m00x wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think people don't understand the perspective here because it's being normalized by all the big players. To make it simpler to understand, apply this system to your computer. What if you couldn't install what you wanted and everything would have to go through a protected store? If the platform dislikes your app, they could just remove it from the store and no one could get it. It adds a huge gate in front of the ha…

To play devil's advocate: PC aside, isn't this business as usual for gaming platforms?

Gaming platforms are single use platforms. Mobile phones much like a PC are general purpose devices that peoples entire lives revolve around.

Re: Judge dismisses Apple’s “theft” claims in Epic Games lawsuit

#69

Post by zakki »

turtlebits wrote: post #62
intricatedetail wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You said you side with Apple, but why? Better analogy is that Apple is a country with a single party, no elections, that dictates who can make money and how much tax they pay. These ecosystems need regulation to enable multiple stores and open APIs.

I don't necessarily agree with App store policies, especially when it comes to transparency/consistency of decisions, but you can always choose not to operate/do business in said country.

So people who love their country but see the problem can’t change it? Instead they have to leave the country?

Re: Judge dismisses Apple’s “theft” claims in Epic Games lawsuit

#70

Post by thehappypm »

horsawlarway wrote: post #60
thehappypm wrote: post #13

I find it hard to side with anyone but Apple here. Apple built not only the marketplace but the actual devices themselves. Apple is giving developers a marketplace of users with powerful processors, fast internet connections, and credit cards already connected. Installing an app is easier on a smartphone than any desktop. A big cut is well worth deserved, and the contract terms seem pretty fair. I can't see how Epic…

I say this bluntly - You sound like an apple fanboy who has no idea what the current state of software distribution is on most platforms. That aside - You're missing the forest for the trees. No one is saying Apple is not providing a service, no one is arguing that they shouldn't be able to charge what they want for that service. Everyone is saying that it's bullshit that Apple is the only service you can pick if you…

It might not seem fair as a developer, but as an iPhone user, I don't have any problem with all my apps coming from one trusted store. Just compare it to Windows. Apps can still be downloaded in several inconsistent ways, and it's hard to trust applications you download arbitrarily.
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