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The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

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Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#61

Post by jermaustin1 »

Spooky23 wrote: post #25
jonathanberger wrote: post #11

Why doesn't the US have universal laws that cover price transparency in general? There are so many industries that get into shady territory: rental cars ("facility use fees"), hotels ("resort fees"), internet access ("mandatory equipment rental fees"), even SF restaurants ("SF mandate"). I'm saying Apple is wrong, and so are many other companies, and shouldn't we have fixed this with a law by this point?

"We" don't like regulation these days. Airlines, for example, were treated like public utilities with tariff schedules approved by some board. Flights were more expensive, but the business was sustainable. Now you have airlines like Norwegian Airlines where you could fly from an out of the way airport in NY to London for less than long-term parking.

You jest, but my 2 week parking at Stewart was double the price of the round-trip flight to Edinburgh. We only lived 1 exit down on the interstate, I should have just had a taxi drop me off.

But they closed that down a couple of years ago (Thanks Boeing). Now the only route from NY to UK is JFK to LGW, but the flights were still so cheap (and hopefully they don't go under) that my wife and I always upgraded to their "premium economy" which was still only $1200 round trip NYC to London, and you get leg room, 2 checked bags, and guaranteed overhead space.

Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#62

Post by idle_zealot »

pokstad wrote: post #31
jonathanberger wrote: post #11

Why doesn't the US have universal laws that cover price transparency in general? There are so many industries that get into shady territory: rental cars ("facility use fees"), hotels ("resort fees"), internet access ("mandatory equipment rental fees"), even SF restaurants ("SF mandate"). I'm saying Apple is wrong, and so are many other companies, and shouldn't we have fixed this with a law by this point?

You don’t need a law for something a consumer can vote with their money. If annoying price structures are that bad, a competitor will create a superior pricing system that takes away marketshare. If that doesn’t happen, then it’s probably not a big deal. Adding laws increases the complexity to comply.

> If that doesn’t happen, then it’s probably not a big deal.

This assumes that agents in the market are rational actors, which they are not. Even when deception becomes the norm enough fall for the lower advertised prices to make the tactic optimal, despite the tactic's negative impact on marks and savvier consumers' alike.

Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#63

Post by kube-system »

jonathanberger wrote: post #11

Why doesn't the US have universal laws that cover price transparency in general? There are so many industries that get into shady territory: rental cars ("facility use fees"), hotels ("resort fees"), internet access ("mandatory equipment rental fees"), even SF restaurants ("SF mandate"). I'm saying Apple is wrong, and so are many other companies, and shouldn't we have fixed this with a law by this point?

"Starting at $x" ads like this are by far the least egregious any of those examples. I don't really see much of a problem with advertising configurable products like this, especially when it is called out specifically as a starting price. The F150 can be priced from $28,745 all the way to $81,000+ and anything in-between. People know trucks have options, and they know that when Ford says it's "starts at $28,745" they're not talking about the top of the line trim. Nobody is being hurt by these practices.

Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#64

Post by ashtonkem »

joejohnson wrote: post #30
ctvo wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a lot of things the US should do. Our government is down at the moment, and on-call has no idea how to resolve the issue.

The corporations have been running the country since it was a nation.

That's really not true. US political and economic thought heavily centered around individual proprietors and farmers before the civil war, and was deeply suspicious of large corporations. In some states you could only form a joint stock company for time & scope limited things, such as building a canal.

It's only after the Civil War and into the Gilded Age do we see the rise and acceptance of large scale corporations, but not without conflict. Modern readers will be surprised to know that Marx was relatively popular among Americans in the west during his lifetime (among those that read, naturally), certainly in part due to the increasingly corporate focus that the American economic system was taking at the time.

Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#65

Post by orev »

cglong wrote: post #17
WWLink wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if that means we'll start seeing iPhones with carrier branding.

Like the whole AT&T "5Ge" thing that Apple gave in on? :(

The carrier contracts likely don’t give any leeway on that. They just provide the image and Apple has to show it.

Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#66

Post by p49k »

pokstad wrote: post #39
jtbayly wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole point is that the competitor can't compete because the consumer is being lied to about the price in the first place—which they don't know until it's too late.

The article says they put asterisks on the prices along with clarifications in the small text. That’s not being lied to, just annoying.

It’s death by a thousand cuts. There is no way a consumer can win and be able to make effective choices in this environment.

Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#67

Post by rchaud »

yumraj wrote: post #47

Anyone who is saying, oh it's just $30 is living in a bubble.. - Many people buy these on a monthly installment, so $30 can be 1-2 months of installment. (not sure which exactly I have not verified). - From a Marketing standpoint the difference is $6xx vs $7xx pricing, which has a psychological impact. This is why a very very large percentage of prices end in .90-.99 - This seems to be the first time Apple has done t…

I think the difference from a marketing perspective is the big issue, as there is a big psychological inertia people have with Apple prices not ending in a neat "$__99".

Are people really buying the latest iPhone on monthly installment plans? How much more do you pay for the device over the lifetime of the plan?

I'm still hanging on to my 2016 Galaxy S7 because it works great and phone prices seem to have spiked massively upwards over the last few years.

Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#68

Post by ashtonkem »

kube-system wrote: post #63
jonathanberger wrote: post #11

Why doesn't the US have universal laws that cover price transparency in general? There are so many industries that get into shady territory: rental cars ("facility use fees"), hotels ("resort fees"), internet access ("mandatory equipment rental fees"), even SF restaurants ("SF mandate"). I'm saying Apple is wrong, and so are many other companies, and shouldn't we have fixed this with a law by this point?

"Starting at $x" ads like this are by far the least egregious any of those examples. I don't really see much of a problem with advertising configurable products like this, especially when it is called out specifically as a starting price. The F150 can be priced from $28,745 all the way to $81,000+ and anything in-between. People know trucks have options, and they know that when Ford says it's "starts at $28,745" they…

Fun fact; the F150 is so customizable that there are times and places where it's impossible for some car websites to parse their VINs back into a make, model, and style (trim). This is an issue that we didn't have with any other OEM, but it required that all systems assume that Style was optional.

Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#69

Post by rasz »

freedomben wrote: post #51
jb775 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to mention dentists, doctors, hospitals, etc. I have an eye doctor appt this week and I literally have no idea if it's gonna cost me $50 or $500.

I asked straight up before seeing the doc about the cost and nobody knew. They finally estimated "about $1,500" and my total bill was around $5,000. And if I refuse to pay it, they send me to collections. It's insane what they are allowed to do.

Ask for itemized bill, dispute every single item

https://www.aarp.org/money/credit-loans-debt/info-2019/dispu...

Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#70

Post by larkost »

markdown wrote: post #32

> Apple fibs about... You aren't an American television news network reporting on politicians, and you don't need to pretend that a mega-corporation told a cute little "fib". They lied. That's the word to use.

No, they mislead. They did not say something that is untrue. They said "starting at $699", which is technically true. They should have been more forthcoming, and said "when bought for carriers..." (which they did in small print), the absence of which was solidly misleading. But they did not "fib" or "lie", both of which mean an untrue statement.

The problem that U.S. media has been having is that President Trump probably does not know the real answer to most of the untruths he says... he seems to say them without knowing the truth either way, and does not seem to care. Pretending to know something probably counts as a lie (it certainly should from the President of the U.S.A.), but the mainstream media has been uncertain of how to treat that. But it is an obviously different situation than with Apple telling people the prices they themselves set.

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