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I don’t have time for coding challenges

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Re: I don’t have time for coding challenges

#61

Post by Kuraj »

simplyinfinity wrote: post #55

I'm currently in the interview process with few companies, here's my experience with them: Company 1: 1 hour HR interview Coding task spend about 4 hours on it, at first i implemented basic but correct implementation, no OOD & design patters or anything fancy. They said i should redo it but with SOLID OOD and design patterns + unit tests, so i threw in the most convoluted code i could think of for a console app. That…

Company 3 is very close to the interview process that led me to my current job. They also gave me a choice between a "waterfall" approach, or pair programming where we talk about the solution as we go.

Most pleasant interview experience I've ever had.

Re: I don’t have time for coding challenges

#62

Post by Tade0 »

Ugh, so many points I would like to address, but can't without turning this into a lengthy essay.

Anyway I'm currently interviewing and have been on both sides of the recruitment process.

I don't mind homework, but I know that more often than not it's never read or taken into account.

I discovered this by accident when I published my solution through a service that sends a notification when somebody downloads. Eventually they did, but only after I passed all the other steps - even though the task was given early in the process.

I've been publishing them like this ever since and this is my experience so far.

So yeah, coding challenges apparently are just a way to gauge your level of commitment, not a way to test your skills.

Personally I'm turning this around by asking to see a piece of code before we discuss compensation in detail. Dodged at least one bullet this way.

Re: I don’t have time for coding challenges

#63

Post by tick_tock_tick »

frequentnapper wrote: post #41
ergocoder wrote: post #5

Then, don't. I want to move from my 2000 USD a month (this is a good salary already) in a 3rd world country to a FAANG that pays 20k USD per month. I'm willing to go through any challenge because the reward is superb for me. Not to mention, without objective interview questions, an introverted non-native English speaker (who doesn't speak latin-germanic-based language) like me would fail most of these subjective ques…

I don't know of any software company that would hire an introverted person who can't articulate themselves for 20k a month. This is how micro-service architected fully optimized solutions that solve the wrong problem happen. Do you really think the high value of a developer just comes from being able to pass coding challenges when there's millions of them out there?

That's only 240k probably not for a base salary but total comp sure.

Re: I don’t have time for coding challenges

#64

Post by dhairya »

geebee wrote: post #37
dhairya wrote: post #14

I agree that code challenges aren't ideal. But we've been struggling with parsing resumes and titles to identify the competency of developers. Our current coding challenge isn't super hard and based on the type of code you'd see in our product. It asks you to read a simple javascript function, explain it, and then implement new functionality that can built by refactoring the existing method. It's about 20 lines of co…

I've heard a variant of this repeatedly. A company justifies technical exam style interviews on the grounds that many people who look good on paper "can't code". Meaning, can't program fizz buzz. Can't write a method or function. Can't write a loop, or an if/else conditional. But I can do all these things. I've gotten bounced from my interviews because (this was the official reason, anyway) I didn't get far enough wi…

In our case our its based on our actual interview experience with candidates. We've been actively evolving our process and calibrating expectation based on the candidates that have come in. We've actually simplified the interview question considerably (as I mentioned the solution doesn't even require you write new logic, you can refactor existing logic that's provided). But we still see candidates struggle with the basics.

To be fair this could also be a reflection on our ability to read resumes and experiences and our initial phone screen. But it is hard. My first job was at fortune 50 company, you could have the title of senior software engineer and not write a single line of code as part of your job.

That being said i don't won't diminish your experiences. This is just our experience from the other side of the table. Also we don't have an HR department (we're a small startup). The interviews are conducted by engineers in the company and we try our best to empathize with candidates and be conscious of creating an interview process that we'd feel comfortable being a part of as well.

Re: I don’t have time for coding challenges

#65

Post by lubesGordi »

dhairya wrote: post #14

I agree that code challenges aren't ideal. But we've been struggling with parsing resumes and titles to identify the competency of developers. Our current coding challenge isn't super hard and based on the type of code you'd see in our product. It asks you to read a simple javascript function, explain it, and then implement new functionality that can built by refactoring the existing method. It's about 20 lines of co…

If you're interviewing someone for an 'advanced role', you can talk to them and find out if they know their shit. If you can't then you shouldn't be interviewing them. Senior devs can see where other devs are at pretty easily.

Re: I don’t have time for coding challenges

#66

Post by user5994461 »

fractionalhare wrote: post #51
wry_discontent wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I interview a lot of people for frontend positions. I ask one two-sum question to see if they have some knowledge about data structures and simple algorithms. Then I ask them to build something trivial in React, which is what we use. If you can do those things, you're probably fine. The number of people who can't is truly shocking.

I would argue there are many well-qualified frontend engineers who won't correctly solve the two sum problem on their first time encountering it.

This one? https://leetcode.com/problems/two-sum/

>>> Given an array of integers nums and an integer target, return indices of the two numbers such that they add up to target. You may assume that each input would have exactly one solution, and you may not use the same element twice.

Seems trivial enough to me... except if the interviewer forgets the hard constraint that there is exactly one solution, then that's a shitstorm of edge cases.

I'd criticize the problem for asking for the positions of the numbers rather than the numbers. That's just super annoying for no reason.

Re: I don’t have time for coding challenges

#67

Post by gadders »

luckylion wrote: post #23
geebee wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why people do it, no doubt. Keep in mind, a lot of these questions are asked by vastly less desirable companies that ape the hiring practices of FAANG, even though they pay much less. And these companies complain bitterly about a shortage of good developers to hire. So... I'm all onboard with your statement, but I think you only said half of it. Nobody owes me a job, and if I don't like it, I'm free to not get…

Do only those companies complain about a shortage of candidates? Because in the tech centers I know, the market is just empty. Lots of large companies are competing for talent, and if you can't pay bank salaries, you're going to have a hard time. You make it sound like there's plenty of talent around but companies are being snobbish. That's not my experience at all in Germany.

What you describe isn't a shortage. It's an unwillingness to pay the going rate for the talent they want to hire.

Re: I don’t have time for coding challenges

#68

Post by leesec »

frequentnapper wrote: post #33
52-6F-62 wrote: post #30

I'm of the opinion that if there needs to be some objective technical challenge to determine a baseline of competency (and there are very many, very strong arguments for that) then there need to be standards. I've encountered so many variables (no pun intended) in technical interviews that I've virtually stopped preparing. There's hardly any way to prepare when the field is so large and you never really know what you…

the FAANG interviews are pretty standardized now - but then that only selects candidates who are well prepped for the interview itself.

They're really not. It becomes a cat and mouse game where the interviewers know which pool of questions people are studying so they try to invent new ones to prevent people just memorizing the answers. The questions thus end up becoming more and more obscure.

Re: I don’t have time for coding challenges

#69

Post by fractionalhare »

user5994461 wrote: post #66
fractionalhare wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would argue there are many well-qualified frontend engineers who won't correctly solve the two sum problem on their first time encountering it.

This one? https://leetcode.com/problems/two-sum/ >>> Given an array of integers nums and an integer target, return indices of the two numbers such that they add up to target. You may assume that each input would have exactly one solution, and you may not use the same element twice. Seems trivial enough to me... except if the interviewer forgets the hard constraint that there is exactly one solution, then that's a shi…

Does the problem actually have that constraint? If so then yeah it's significantly easier. I thought the reason you'd have to use a clever algorithm is because a brute-force solution to find all index pairs would require n^2 operations, where n is the size of the input array, because you can't stop after you find a single pair.

Re: I don’t have time for coding challenges

#70

Post by ausjke »

Don't know what to say, but I think this is one way to iron out senior folks who don't do daily coding and most of the time was on designing, diagnosis or debugging.

When you go to interview,you may be interviewed by a fresh graduate who throw you a trick leetcode question that is, pretty much, requiring you come up with code in 30 minutes. Without a few months careful practice, it's hard to get it right under stress.

Coding challenges are like driving, you drive at normal speed in real life so you can drive everyday safely, but for interview, your brain has to be speed up the max speed under pressure, not everyone, not even the brightest guy who can do this well, again without months preparation.

I got interviews at Amazon etc but I never had time to practice leetcode etc, there is no way I can pass its whiteboard process without at least 3 months preparation I feel, and I absolutely have no time for that.

How about hiring senior folks as a contractor for 1 or 2 months then to decide the level and pay and such? nobody wastes anytime and no obligation either.

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