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Low Doses of LSD Acutely Increase BDNF Blood Plasma Levels in Healthy Volunteers

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Re: Low Doses of LSD Acutely Increase BDNF Blood Plasma Levels in Healthy Volunteers

#61

Post by __blockcipher__ »

dvduval wrote: post #56
__blockcipher__ wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you talking about a full dose? I’ve had the effect of watching a kid throw a ball on a beach and it split into 8 balls and then merged back into one. But such effects are only present when you take like 100ug, not the few micrograms that would constitute a microdose.

The strongest effect I had was from a liquid dose, and for a minute or two I had what I would characterize as a white out. Everything in my field of vision turned white and I couldn't move very well. My friends were worried about me but it only lasted a short time. I guess it could be said that because I saw multiple balls in the racquetball court that I did see something that was different from reality. But unfortun…

I accidentally dosed myself in the middle of the night once after turning LSD crystal into ethanol:water:lsd solution and being careless at some point in the process.

Those damn mucous membranes, they really get ya. Must have touched my lips absentmindedly.

Before I realized, I was in bed trying to sleep. Restless, tossing and turning. Eventually started feeling that unmistakable body high around 1am. Anyone who’s done LSD before knows the sensation I’m talking about, you can’t miss it.

Cue a couple hours of having no idea how much I had dosed. I was trying to keep a loose subjective accounting of the time. In my head I’m simulating the different possibilities: either I dosed the equivalent of 1 hit a couple hours ago, 2hits an hour ago, or 4+ hits 30 minutes ago. It wasn’t until I passed peak that those different forked realities collapsed like the wave function and it became clear to me that I’d dosed something like 250 ug.

I didn’t sleep that night, as you can imagine. But the run I went on when the sun finally came up at 6am was incredible.

Re: Low Doses of LSD Acutely Increase BDNF Blood Plasma Levels in Healthy Volunteers

#62

Post by __blockcipher__ »

tprice7 wrote: post #58
dqpb wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't believe I really ever saw anything that was different than reality > I remember going to a racquetball court and it seems like they were many balls in the court when there actually there was only one

There isn't necessarily a contradiction there, e.g. you could just see a single ball at any given moment but feel like it was a different ball than the one you saw a few seconds ago. Ditto for the sounds. So you aren't literally seeing anything that isn't there but you may still form higher-level impressions that are not accurate.

The specific visual they’re describing, at least if it was the effect I’ve experienced while actually tripping, is you see the same ball forked into a number of balls that end up merging back together. That was on like 200ug, probably with some cannabis thrown in for good measure.

More broadly you are right, they’re not “hallucinations”. Huge pet peeve of mine when people call them that.

I was telling a friend who’s never tripped on anything about seeing faces in the cliffs. They looked at me like I was stark raving mad and I realized they thought I meant I was seeing a photo-realistic face implanted on the cliff face instead of the reality which was like when (sober) people are gazing at clouds and “seeing” patterns.

Most of us when we are new to tripping make it all about the “visuals”. But the realization eventually comes that in order to get the really crazy visuals your whole reality needs to be tripping really hard and one way it manifests is the visual field. There’s no way to experience “just visuals”, it’s going to come with the bodily sensations and altered temporal processing etc.

I’ve always found it fascinating how people interpret the melting away of time. Some describe it as lasting “forever”, but that’s just the word they’re using to describe the notion that getCurrentTime() is returning null rather than a fixed number.

Re: Low Doses of LSD Acutely Increase BDNF Blood Plasma Levels in Healthy Volunteers

#63

Post by ianai »

nicoffeine wrote: post #46

Low doses may also prevent Alzheimers from progressing.[1][2] Ayahuasca/DMT[3] and psilocybin[4] may have similar effects. It's fascinating that a monthly visit to your local shaman may still be more safe and effective for depression, anxiety, and cognitive decline than anything western medicine has been able to produce. [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/abbierosner/2020/02/21/microdos... [2] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.…

Any studies for the Stamets stack of psilocybin, lions mane, niacin?

I’m intrigued by lions mane because it’s legal, of course.

Re: Low Doses of LSD Acutely Increase BDNF Blood Plasma Levels in Healthy Volunteers

#64

Post by 50 »

bigyikes wrote: post #19
iamgopal wrote: post #2

Anyone with first hand experience of LSD ?

The drug never fails to boost my outlook on humanity and restore my natural curiosity and thirst for life. I don’t take it frequently or consistently, but I do take it religiously.

Me too. I always get this sense that I've been asleep my whole life during and after the experience. For instance, the seemingly mundane things (wall, ground, chair, window, tree, bird, etc) are perceived in a sacred light.

Re: Low Doses of LSD Acutely Increase BDNF Blood Plasma Levels in Healthy Volunteers

#65

Post by AstralStorm »

nicoffeine wrote: post #46

Low doses may also prevent Alzheimers from progressing.[1][2] Ayahuasca/DMT[3] and psilocybin[4] may have similar effects. It's fascinating that a monthly visit to your local shaman may still be more safe and effective for depression, anxiety, and cognitive decline than anything western medicine has been able to produce. [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/abbierosner/2020/02/21/microdos... [2] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.…

Funny thing though, we use ergoloid derivatives in western medicine too.

These are alpha-blockers for treating migraines or hypertension. There are psychotropic drugs based on these as well, and a bunch of discredited nootropics.

Now, high BDNF on its own is not a good or bad thing. It is released both when injuries and when growth happens...

I would be very careful recommending a shaman, unless you happen to have evidence for how well traditional approach to treatment works compared to recent drugs or current mental health treatments, or a precise description of what those people do, as it's more than just "take this drug and go home". We could use such studies for sure, and not for cultural appropriation!

We lack sufficient data to recommend for or against. (Partly because countries virtually banned research because "drugs" are "bad". Others are trying to hold it exclusive for their culture, which is wrong too. I think they should stand to gain from it if it works.)

Re: Low Doses of LSD Acutely Increase BDNF Blood Plasma Levels in Healthy Volunteers

#66

Post by bb88 »

nicoffeine wrote: post #46

Low doses may also prevent Alzheimers from progressing.[1][2] Ayahuasca/DMT[3] and psilocybin[4] may have similar effects. It's fascinating that a monthly visit to your local shaman may still be more safe and effective for depression, anxiety, and cognitive decline than anything western medicine has been able to produce. [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/abbierosner/2020/02/21/microdos... [2] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.…

It is also true that when we could have been exploring psychedelics back in the 60/70's, but they were made illegal mostly as a political backlash to the counterculture -- thus pretty much stifling the last 50 years of research on them.

"Punching-the-hippy" politics aside, the political leaders told us there was nothing beneficial ever about those drugs, and we typically believed them, even lumping scientists who wanted to study them in the same camp as the "UFO Cranks".

So the question is, is it western medicine that's the issue, or the lack of science based politics?

Re: Low Doses of LSD Acutely Increase BDNF Blood Plasma Levels in Healthy Volunteers

#67

Post by AstralStorm »

ianai wrote: post #63
nicoffeine wrote: post #46

Low doses may also prevent Alzheimers from progressing.[1][2] Ayahuasca/DMT[3] and psilocybin[4] may have similar effects. It's fascinating that a monthly visit to your local shaman may still be more safe and effective for depression, anxiety, and cognitive decline than anything western medicine has been able to produce. [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/abbierosner/2020/02/21/microdos... [2] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.…

Any studies for the Stamets stack of psilocybin, lions mane, niacin? I’m intrigued by lions mane because it’s legal, of course.

Psylocybin is just barely tested, but some results are promising. Niacin is irrelevant thus far. Lion's mane is also promising but benefits seem very limited and small.

The "stack" is insane as we do not understand what each of the components does separately or in any combination and the rationale for including one of them is based on discredited ideas.

Re: Low Doses of LSD Acutely Increase BDNF Blood Plasma Levels in Healthy Volunteers

#68

Post by fny »

0xcde4c3db wrote: post #43
nullc wrote: post #13

So does exercise.

I skimmed the literature a bit, and the results on this seem to be pretty mixed. Basically, exercise boosts serum BDNF, except when it doesn't. In particular, it doesn't seem to be clear what the necessary conditions are for a sustained effect on BDNF, as opposed to a previously sedentary/untrained person getting a transient boost from a single bout of exercise. One study's [1] introduction summarized it thus ( a lot…

The LSD study captures the same effect actually. There is no sustained BDNF increase outside the 6 hour window they measured. In fact, it's seems as if the BDNF is entirely eliminated at the end of the 6 hours.

From this, I'd guess one wouldn't see a sustained increase in BDNF levels from microdosing either.

Re: Low Doses of LSD Acutely Increase BDNF Blood Plasma Levels in Healthy Volunteers

#69

Post by Enginerrrd »

bb88 wrote: post #66
nicoffeine wrote: post #46

Low doses may also prevent Alzheimers from progressing.[1][2] Ayahuasca/DMT[3] and psilocybin[4] may have similar effects. It's fascinating that a monthly visit to your local shaman may still be more safe and effective for depression, anxiety, and cognitive decline than anything western medicine has been able to produce. [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/abbierosner/2020/02/21/microdos... [2] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.…

It is also true that when we could have been exploring psychedelics back in the 60/70's, but they were made illegal mostly as a political backlash to the counterculture -- thus pretty much stifling the last 50 years of research on them. "Punching-the-hippy" politics aside, the political leaders told us there was nothing beneficial ever about those drugs, and we typically believed them, even lumping scientists who wan…

Honestly a fair number of studies have been done and the problem with all that stuff is there's always been a relatively high rate of complications and adverse outcomes. Responses/experiences are hard to predict.

I get that in some people it can be a wonderful thing, nearly a miracle cure. I've done plenty of psychedelics myself, but I always find the insistence by proponents that any harm done is the fault of the user ("poor preparation", "not the right setting", "inexperienced guide", etc, etc) to be really disingenuous and unscientific. Like, there are legit some people that really won't respond well to this as therapy.

Now, conventional pharmaceuticals and therapy have the same issues, but the reality is psychedelic therapies have never been a clear favorite.

Re: Low Doses of LSD Acutely Increase BDNF Blood Plasma Levels in Healthy Volunteers

#70

Post by bashallah »

AstralStorm wrote: post #65
nicoffeine wrote: post #46

Low doses may also prevent Alzheimers from progressing.[1][2] Ayahuasca/DMT[3] and psilocybin[4] may have similar effects. It's fascinating that a monthly visit to your local shaman may still be more safe and effective for depression, anxiety, and cognitive decline than anything western medicine has been able to produce. [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/abbierosner/2020/02/21/microdos... [2] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.…

Funny thing though, we use ergoloid derivatives in western medicine too. These are alpha-blockers for treating migraines or hypertension. There are psychotropic drugs based on these as well, and a bunch of discredited nootropics. Now, high BDNF on its own is not a good or bad thing. It is released both when injuries and when growth happens... I would be very careful recommending a shaman, unless you happen to have ev…

Shamans do not give you drugs and send you home. That’s a drug dealer.

Shamans are more like tour guides. Walking you through your own experience.

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