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Blanked-out spots on China's maps helped us uncover Xinjiang's camps

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Re: Blanked-out spots on China's maps helped us uncover Xinjiang's camps

#61

Post by free_rms »

ardy42 wrote: post #57
throwaway4good wrote: post #30

"Alison Killing conducted this reporting with a grant and further assistance from the Open Technology Fund." From wikipedia: "As of November 2019, the Open Technology Fund became an independent nonprofit corporation and a grantee of the U.S. Agency for Global Media.[7] Until its formation as an independent entity, it had operated as a program of Radio Free Asia." Radio Free Asia ... founded by the CIA and a today wel…

> Radio Free Asia ... founded by the CIA and a today well oiled propaganda arm for whatever is on the US government's foreign policy agenda. Eh, not so much: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_Free_Asia > RFA is the only station outside China that broadcasts in the Uygur-language.[32] It has been recognized for played a vital role in exposing Xinjiang re-education camps.[33][34][35] The New York Times regards RFA as…

And the Comintern was merely meant to promote workers rights?

It's definitionally a propaganda arm of the government. If you think that we're the good guys, then they're the good guys, but they're still propaganda.

Re: Blanked-out spots on China's maps helped us uncover Xinjiang's camps

#62

Post by radmuzom »

throwaway69123 wrote: post #25

How as a consumer do I avoid the moral dread of buying made in China when 99% of everything is made in China.

Start by self reflection on your hypocrisy. Do you feel bad about regularly using services from a country which has committed and supported some of the worst war crimes and genocide in history? (if not obvious, I am referring to the US)

Re: Blanked-out spots on China's maps helped us uncover Xinjiang's camps

#63

Post by 0xbadcafebee »

throwaway69123 wrote: post #25

How as a consumer do I avoid the moral dread of buying made in China when 99% of everything is made in China.

Some options:

1. Resolve to not care if anyone is hurt in the process of providing you with consumables. Come up with excuses why it's not your responsibility, avoid learning more about it, ignore it, live in denial. The moral dread is gone.

2. Acquire your goods somewhere else, which may involve more cost and difficulty. The moral dread may not be gone if you realize that simply not supporting the oppression does not stop the oppression (avoiding German products does not stop the Holocaust)

3. Consume less. Same issue as #2 though.

4. Actively work towards ending the oppression which is giving you moral dread. This may end the moral dread, even if you continue to consume their products.

#1 is what most people go with.

Re: Blanked-out spots on China's maps helped us uncover Xinjiang's camps

#65

Post by Lio »

gus_massa wrote: post #51
propertymagnate wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are excellent suggestions. I've been wishing for some kind of "made in democracy" stamp, or a "produced humanly" if that would also shut out other more moderate manufacturing centres, similar to fair trade chocolate. https://www.fairtradeamerica.org/shop-fairtrade/fairtrade-pr...

> "made in democracy" Many countries have a fake democracy cover. Even Hitler won an election with like the 99% of the votes (I wonder if the other 1% survived for too long.) Also, does this label apply to the United Kingdom or Canada?

> Also, does this label apply to the United Kingdom or Canada?

Why would it not?

It's not like the head of state wields power in a parliamentary democracy. We cut the head off the last monarch to try that 1649, more than 100 years before either the French or US revolutions.

Re: Blanked-out spots on China's maps helped us uncover Xinjiang's camps

#66

Post by boplicity »

throwaway69123 wrote: post #25

How as a consumer do I avoid the moral dread of buying made in China when 99% of everything is made in China.

As a start, you can buy goods from non-Chinese owned companies, even if they're manufactured in China. Also, you can start paying attention to the manufacturing location, so at least you are able to make a conscious choice. It's not easy, but possible.

For example, I'm planning on building a computer. I'm going to aim for components from Taiwanese and U.S. companies as much as possible. In terms of laptops, I won't buy a Lenovo, but would consider an Apple or HP, even though they're all at least partially made in China.

Re: Blanked-out spots on China's maps helped us uncover Xinjiang's camps

#68

Post by FooBarWidget »

There are various levels of reporting in about what's happening in Xinjiang. I'm curious which ones of the following people here on HN believe are true.

A. There is forced re-education, forced de-radicalization, and forced political assimilation (to fight separatism). Some camps are indeed for voluntary vocational education, others are for forced re-education. The number of people who are forced into camps, are a lot less than the alleged 1+ million. No killing/genocide; no erasure of Muslim religion, artefacts or buildings; any brutality in prisons are incidental rather than policy. All people who are forced into camps eventually leave them.

B. Like A, except that there are no voluntary vocational camps: all camps are forced. All people leave them after a while.

C. Like B, except that people aren't supposed to leave them. Masses of people are imprisoned indefinitely. The alleged 1+ million number is true. Erasure of Muslim religion and artefacts is true. Brutality within camps are true. But no killing/genocide.

D. Full killing/genocide ala Nazi Auschwitz, on the full population, everywhere in China.

E. None of the above. Would love to hear what you think is exactly going on.

Which of the above do people here think is true?

Re: Blanked-out spots on China's maps helped us uncover Xinjiang's camps

#69

Post by mschuster91 »

adventured wrote: post #41
aminecodes wrote: post #17

The least the EU and US could do is sanction and ban Baidu and other Chinese tech companies responsible for covering up this genocide.

It would have very little effect, which is why it's not a primary threat now. Despite China's aims, their tech giants have made little headway in pushing their core businesses far outside of China. Huawei is the primary success story in that regard (the US has obviously been aggressively targeting them across the board). Baidu was supposed to conquer the world and defeat Google, it failed miserably and is largely jus…

> cut them out of the global system; that requires a widespread effort from the top several dozen economies, it can be done however.

The problem is that many of the world's economies already depend on China - either as a source of cheap products or, and that is an increasingly successful threat, for money. China has been buying up, building or financing construction works especially in South Europe (Italy, Greece, Croatia, Serbia come to mind), and are involved across Africa.

Re: Blanked-out spots on China's maps helped us uncover Xinjiang's camps

#70

Post by throwaway69123 »

radmuzom wrote: post #62
throwaway69123 wrote: post #25

How as a consumer do I avoid the moral dread of buying made in China when 99% of everything is made in China.

Start by self reflection on your hypocrisy. Do you feel bad about regularly using services from a country which has committed and supported some of the worst war crimes and genocide in history? (if not obvious, I am referring to the US)

You lost me with "in history" did you just forget the last 200 years?
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