The Montessori Mafia • Hacker News Board

Re: The Montessori Mafia

#61

Post by crpatino » Wed, Apr 06, 2011, 9:10 PM UTC

ronnier wrote: post #56

ladon86 wrote: post #11

I went to a Waldorf/Steiner school, which shares some of these traits such as the lack of a focus on assessment and grading and the emphasis on creativity. We weren't taught the alphabet until the age of about 6-7 and basic arithmetic at 7-8. We did begin learning foreign languages at age 6, however. In practice my older brother taught me to read and count well before the Steiner curriculum did, but I still think tha…

>We weren't taught the alphabet until the age of about 6-7 My daughter is 1.5 years old and knows almost all of the alphabet. Is this a good thing or bad thing?

Neither good or bad.

It is a clue that she probably is good at "symbolic thinking". More of this stuff to come in the near future. Just make sure she has plenty of chances to develop this (probably innate) ability.

On the other hand, as she grows up, you probably should keep an eye on her and help to mitigate any shortcomings that'd eventually show up. But this is the same with all children anyway.

Re: The Montessori Mafia

#62

Post by araneae » Wed, Apr 06, 2011, 9:11 PM UTC

ziadbc wrote: post #4

I really like the idea of Montessori, and if I have the cash I'd like to send my future kids there someday. That being said, I see correlation here, not causation. To be a little bit tongue and cheek, I could write the headline: "99% of successful people do not attend Montessori schools"

You too can cheaply imitate a Montessori school by

a)Taking your kid out of public school and

b)Encourage your kid to do things he finds interesting with you at home and take him to museums and crap

True, it requires a mostly unemployed parent, but Montessori has just discovered how kids learn naturally at a young age. Just like a kid learns a language without having to be formally taught, he learns other things without formal education as well. The older years it's a different story, but there's really no need to pay a ton of money for a Montessori pre-school. Any parent can do it.

Re: The Montessori Mafia

#63

Post by brlewis » Wed, Apr 06, 2011, 9:14 PM UTC

ladon86 wrote: post #11

I went to a Waldorf/Steiner school, which shares some of these traits such as the lack of a focus on assessment and grading and the emphasis on creativity. We weren't taught the alphabet until the age of about 6-7 and basic arithmetic at 7-8. We did begin learning foreign languages at age 6, however. In practice my older brother taught me to read and count well before the Steiner curriculum did, but I still think tha…

At the Montessori school my kids attend, children learn letters when they're ready/motivated, usually around age 3 or 4. Basic arithmetic starts around around age 4-5, typically. I don't think Waldorf/Steiner emphasizes materials the way Montessori does: http://ourdoings.com/brlewis/2006-01-21

I'm not actually sure how similar Waldorf/Steiner is to Montessori, aside from both shunning the same bad ideas.

Re: The Montessori Mafia

#64

Post by evilduck » Wed, Apr 06, 2011, 9:14 PM UTC

dasil003 wrote: post #28

timr wrote: post #5

"When Barbara Walters, who interviewed Google founders Messrs. Page and Brin in 2004, asked if having parents who were college professors was a major factor behind their success, they instead credited their early Montessori education" Ahem. I spy a latent variable in this correlation. Can you find it? Hint: Montessori education may or may not have advantages. But unless you control for educational background and inco…

Yeah absolutely, but the irony is if you spend all your time perfecting your scientific approach to decision-making about parenting, you are not necessarily more likely to make better decisions than if you paying very close attention to them and using your intuition. It goes without saying I don't have a citation for that, but based on my personal experience as a child and a parent I strongly believe it be true.

I don't have the book handy to quote, but Freakonomics had a similar assertion about specific parenting styles not being a major factor in the educational outcome (test scores) of children. I can't remember what "styles" were part of the data though.

Re: The Montessori Mafia

#65

Post by dgabriel » Wed, Apr 06, 2011, 9:17 PM UTC

karolisd wrote: post #44

Are all of the examples male? Do Montessori schools help females too?

There are certainly some women on the list, but none of them appear to be founders: http://mariamontessori.com/mm/?page_id=571

I would attribute that to there being many more men founders, and that the vast majority of children attend other types of schools. Any crossover will be vanishingly small.

Re: The Montessori Mafia

#66

Post by brlewis » Wed, Apr 06, 2011, 9:21 PM UTC

realitygrill wrote: post #23

This is just confirmation bias. Page credits "part of that training of not following rules and orders, and being self-motivated, questioning what’s going on in the world, doing things a little bit differently." As a Montessori kid myself, I could see myself having differing opinions depending on how the future turned out. Successful: go back and credit Montessori for making me a rebellious, curious nonconformist. Uns…

Montessori only looks like a "not following rules and orders" environment in comparison to an environment where you ask permission to use the bathroom, and are told every hour of every day exactly what to do. Montessori has structure, just a lot less, more comparable to the amount of structure I have in my day job.

Re: The Montessori Mafia

#67

Post by bostonpete » Wed, Apr 06, 2011, 9:25 PM UTC

kbutler wrote: post #37

bostonpete wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the parents of people who care enough about their education to enroll them in a montessori school... Really? You think it's just a matter of caring enough to make it so? I think I'd phrase this differently -- that the parents of people who have the means to send them to a montessori school probably would have the means to give them other advantages in life as well, so their kids are probably going to do pretty well…

> the parents of people who have the means to send them to a montessori school probably would have the means to give them other advantages in life as well, so their kids are probably going to do pretty well regardless. I disagree with the emphasis on the "means" of the family. Contrast the success of immigrant families who struggle to get an education for a child with the wastrel habits of many "rich kids". Care is c…

I don't think most immigrant families who struggle for the education of their kids do so by sending them to private grade school. More often they take maximum advantage of the public options available to them and augment it with good parenting.

> Care is critical. Wealth may be helpful.

Certainly I agree if we're talking about raising a successful child but that wasn't the issue we were discussing. When it comes to sending your kid to private school, I think money usually goes a lot further than care.

Re: The Montessori Mafia

#68

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Apr 06, 2011, 9:29 PM UTC

Alex3917 wrote: post #33

ladon86 wrote: post #11

I went to a Waldorf/Steiner school, which shares some of these traits such as the lack of a focus on assessment and grading and the emphasis on creativity. We weren't taught the alphabet until the age of about 6-7 and basic arithmetic at 7-8. We did begin learning foreign languages at age 6, however. In practice my older brother taught me to read and count well before the Steiner curriculum did, but I still think tha…

"There's a reason the really big hitters are often first-time entrepreneurs - they are naive enough to try." I think it's often because they don't understand the difference between a good product and a good business, so their expected outcomes tend to be at the extremes. Some of them end up doing ridiculously well, but overall I wouldn't consider not understanding lead gen, sales cycles, margins, cashflow, lifetime c…

[deleted]

Re: The Montessori Mafia

#69

Post by Aetius » Wed, Apr 06, 2011, 9:33 PM UTC

s3graham wrote: post #50

kloncks wrote: post #8

Fascinating insight. But isn't this a classic case of of correlation, not causation?

Puffy did Montessori and he's doing pretty damn well for himself! Jay-Z started in the projects and didn't finish high school, and he's doing even better ! Holy crap, I know where I'm sending my kids!

Extrapolating this out ... Lakeside School, Philips Exeter or perhaps Collegiate ;)

Re: The Montessori Mafia

#70

Post by cynicalkane » Wed, Apr 06, 2011, 9:34 PM UTC

il wrote: post #39

ladon86 wrote: post #11

I went to a Waldorf/Steiner school, which shares some of these traits such as the lack of a focus on assessment and grading and the emphasis on creativity. We weren't taught the alphabet until the age of about 6-7 and basic arithmetic at 7-8. We did begin learning foreign languages at age 6, however. In practice my older brother taught me to read and count well before the Steiner curriculum did, but I still think tha…

I think it comes down to the fact that, considering the work involved and that the majority of startups fail, it's never an economically rational decision to work on a startup. Realistic to most people means in the "real world" you follow a safe familiar progression from school to entry level job to management to retirement. There are guide rails and evaluations along the way to make sure you're on track. You found a…

It can be economically rational if you value things other than the expected value of your money-to-utility function.

People forget that economics takes into account things other than money. A lot of "economic" discussion would go a lot smoother if people remembered this.