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TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban

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Re: TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban

#61

Post by DetroitThrow »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #57
OneGuy123 wrote: post #26

Imagine US companies suing China for not allowing them to operate there. People would say "China can decide what they want to allow". Well if China can decide (which they did first) two can play this game. Also TikTok says this ban is baseless. If USA's ban of TikTok is baseless, what base does China have for banning everything?

China's basis is that foreign companies won't respect their laws. What US laws has TikTok broken? Privacy isn't protected because an entire domestic industry has bought off Congress. Why can't a foreign company participate in the same?

>Why can't a foreign company participate in the same?

Basically foreign owned companies don't have the same constitutional rights as ones owned by US citizens - these companies operations basically being foreign commerce is where the entity list powers are derived from.

Re: TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban

#62

Post by buisi »

Ygg2 wrote: post #48
ken47 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're being singled out because they're from China, no?

So? China uses data it gathers to track down and arrest dissident (and/or ship them to organ harvesting/re-education camps). Last time I checked, Facebook isn't owned by US, and US doesn't reeducate their people in such a gut wrenching ways (pun intended).

Do you have a source on the organ harvesting?

Re: TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban

#63

Post by chrisco255 »

sschueller wrote: post #40
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Wouldn't it still be fine if they are storing data there but not giving it to china gov? That situation does not exist. Chinese law basically means that any data held in China can be accessed by the government at any time.

Like in the US..., you just need a warrant which is just paperwork.

Unfortunately the FISA courts have been abused like crazy. But warrants aren't just paperwork. If you're charged with a crime but the prosecution has violated your rights, you can walk free in the U.S. You have multiple layers of appeals courts to go through if you get railroaded. The CCP is truly authoritarian and rules and laws are what they say they are. Not even remotely equivalent.

Re: TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban

#64

Post by bleah1000 »

bawolff wrote: post #6

> The app has also been used to antagonize the president, including when thousands of teens reserved tickets to the president's rally in Tulsa, Okla., with no intention of going, inflating the Trump campaign's expectations for the event and causing embarrassment over the disappointing turnout. Forgot that was organized on tiktok. All makes sense now. If US was really interested in national security i'm pretty sure zo…

Did you know that the Democrats are also not too happy with TikTok and the CCP? Biden even had his staffers remove the app. This is not as Trump/Republicans partisan as people think. There is a lot of bi-partisan support for TikTok as dangerous. It's highly probably that the solution is not the same, but many politicians are definitely worried about the app.

It's also weird that so many people believe this idea that people on TikTok did anything to the Tulsa rally. I don't think people know how the rally worked, so they take at face value someone saying TikTok users made Trump mad. Requesting tickets was not first come, first served, it was simply saying you might come. So at worst, TikTok users inflated the number of people who said they might go. So it likely had no affect on the number of people that actually showed up. Covid-19 probably was the most likely reason that people didn't show up in large numbers.

I'm not even aware of any evidence that large numbers of users were able to get reservations. A bunch of kids on TikTok saying they reserved tickets is not the same as actual proof.

I really wish that we could make people skeptical of all claims made by anyone. Don't just blindly believe some news story that includes no evidence, or quotes a few tweets because you want it to be true.

Re: TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban

#65

Post by JumpCrisscross »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #57
OneGuy123 wrote: post #26

Imagine US companies suing China for not allowing them to operate there. People would say "China can decide what they want to allow". Well if China can decide (which they did first) two can play this game. Also TikTok says this ban is baseless. If USA's ban of TikTok is baseless, what base does China have for banning everything?

China's basis is that foreign companies won't respect their laws. What US laws has TikTok broken? Privacy isn't protected because an entire domestic industry has bought off Congress. Why can't a foreign company participate in the same?

> What US laws has TikTok broken?

The legal basis for the Order banning Tik Tok [1] came from Order 13873 [2]. It's...not the best.

[1] https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/executive-or...

[2] https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2019/05/17/2019-10...

Re: TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban

#66

Post by DetroitThrow »

madacoo wrote: post #54
buisi wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, China does censor sites and apps. But is it really good to censor sites and apps just like they do? Aren't we better than that? Do we want anyone having that sort of power?

The aspect I believe you're missing is that any Chinese company with over 50 employees is not a legitimate private company because the CCP essentially claims ownership over them. This means ByteDance is essentially state run and makes the national security risk a legitimate concern. I believe the national security risk argument is stronger in the case of Huawei. Since having a state run company build essential commun…

Well, regardless of being private or public, a foreign owned company having US operations doesn't guarantee it the rights as the US operated equivalent. Foreign commerce is regulated by both the executive and legislative branch - there are no constitutionally guaranteed rights for foreign commerce.

Re: TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban

#67

Post by kittiepryde »

izacus wrote: post #44
OneGuy123 wrote: post #26

Imagine US companies suing China for not allowing them to operate there. People would say "China can decide what they want to allow". Well if China can decide (which they did first) two can play this game. Also TikTok says this ban is baseless. If USA's ban of TikTok is baseless, what base does China have for banning everything?

China is a totalitarian regime which doesn't follow due process and basic freedoms. I strongly hope that your strange "tit-for-tat" doesn't extend to basic rights of people and businesses on US soil. US is supposed to be better than that, remember?

What basic rights are you worried about?

Re: TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban

#68

Post by khuey »

izacus wrote: post #44
OneGuy123 wrote: post #26

Imagine US companies suing China for not allowing them to operate there. People would say "China can decide what they want to allow". Well if China can decide (which they did first) two can play this game. Also TikTok says this ban is baseless. If USA's ban of TikTok is baseless, what base does China have for banning everything?

China is a totalitarian regime which doesn't follow due process and basic freedoms. I strongly hope that your strange "tit-for-tat" doesn't extend to basic rights of people and businesses on US soil. US is supposed to be better than that, remember?

There's no "basic right" of foreign businesses to do business in the United States.

Re: TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban

#69

Post by DetroitThrow »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #65
kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China's basis is that foreign companies won't respect their laws. What US laws has TikTok broken? Privacy isn't protected because an entire domestic industry has bought off Congress. Why can't a foreign company participate in the same?

> What US laws has TikTok broken? The legal basis for the Order banning Tik Tok [1] came from Order 13873 [2]. It's...not the best. [1] https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/executive-or... [2] https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2019/05/17/2019-10...

The issue here is until Congress intervenes, foreign affairs power still is within the executive branches jurisdiction... Which is increasingly tumultuous with Congress flipping underneath the president every cycle it feels like.

Re: TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban

#70

Post by tannhaeuser »

I don't want to stir up controversity even more, but with POTUS reigning by decree most of the time, and a self-referential two-party politics cartel, isn't the US already into a constitutional crisis of sort? I mean, the US administration has every reason to question China's asymmetric conditions for investment, and the West turning a blind eye towards China totalitarism due to greed and economic necessity, but the current president's ad-hoc actions against partners (NATO, Canada, EU, Mexico, and others) don't amount to a strategic goal so much as a short-sighted signal of "doing something" in election campaigning. In fact, these actions have made it more difficult or even impossible to side with the US. The TikTok ban, apart from its terrible looks (intrusiveness into an already US-dominated market), seems to only follow Trump's desire to black-out an alleged anti-Trump social platform in upcoming elections. The reasoning for allowing Russia to meddle with elections OTOH should be even more concerning in geo-political terms: that Russia's pro-Trump stance is because Trump staying in power will only serve to weaken Western countries.
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