Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban

npr.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 372 posts

Re: TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban

#41

Post by baddox »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #18
bawolff wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question: would it matter if they stored data in mainland china? Wouldn't it still be fine if they are storing data there but not giving it to china gov? (Not that i really believe that any data in china is safe from gov, although i could say the same about usa, but what is the actual bar that the us gov has to meet to show its a national security risk? Is data on china soil sufficient?)

> Wouldn't it still be fine if they are storing data there but not giving it to china gov? That situation does not exist. Chinese law basically means that any data held in China can be accessed by the government at any time.

Is that unique to Chinese law?

Re: TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban

#42

Post by helsinkiandrew »

OneGuy123 wrote: post #26

Imagine US companies suing China for not allowing them to operate there. People would say "China can decide what they want to allow". Well if China can decide (which they did first) two can play this game. Also TikTok says this ban is baseless. If USA's ban of TikTok is baseless, what base does China have for banning everything?

> two can play this game

China is a dictatorship. No one doing business in or with China does so without knowing that they have to toe the party/government line and could loose everything if they don't

The US is an elected democracy with a strong respect for the rule of law both domestically and internationally (lets not start debating that - historically and compared with China it has) and has attracted foreign capital and investment because of that.

If Trump wants to protect US citizens data then it should tighten privacy law rather than playing nationalistic tit-for-tat which will undermine investor confidence in the US.

Re: TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban

#43

Post by DetroitThrow »

Traster wrote: post #29
zpeti wrote: post #10

Will a chinese company really comply with the US court system in terms of discovery? I would question if they are going to comply with discovery in a way that a US company might. What exactly is forcing them to hand over actual documentation and not just forgeries? Will the Chinese court system get them in trouble for that? I doubt it. After all many publically traded chinese companies in the US aren't actually compl…

I might be missing something, but I don't see the relevance of discovery when TikTok is suing the US government. The government will need to establish that it followed due process in drafting and executing the executive order. I can't see what relevant information TikTok would hold about that? Posisbly they would have correspondence between the government and themselves, but you would expect the government to have co…

DoJ could ask ByteDance for information about TikTok US data security. It's a no brainer to see why DoJ proving this issue would be hard if the laws were stringent, but it doesn't seem like his entity list (if that's what he's using) power has any restrictions on Chinese foreign commerce - historically it's been interpreted as very broad, so as far as SCOTUS will let him.

Re: TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban

#44

Post by izacus »

OneGuy123 wrote: post #26

Imagine US companies suing China for not allowing them to operate there. People would say "China can decide what they want to allow". Well if China can decide (which they did first) two can play this game. Also TikTok says this ban is baseless. If USA's ban of TikTok is baseless, what base does China have for banning everything?

China is a totalitarian regime which doesn't follow due process and basic freedoms.

I strongly hope that your strange "tit-for-tat" doesn't extend to basic rights of people and businesses on US soil. US is supposed to be better than that, remember?

Re: TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban

#45

Post by khuey »

bryanrasmussen wrote: post #17
wmichelin wrote: post #8

While I think TikTok is a cesspool, Trump banning TikTok is a wild overextension of Federal power. How any "small gov't" conservative is okay with this, while over 1000 Americans are dying of COVID per day nonetheless, is beyond me. They need to educate Americans on the predatory nature of TikToks software and move along.

I dislike Trump (not as much as I disliked Bush, because I knew a lot of guys like Bush so I had something to focus my dislike on, and I don't know anyone like Trump) I'm not American but I did live there a long time. I agree the ban is some crazy stuff but: >How any "small gov't" conservative is okay with this, while over 1000 Americans are dying of COVID per day nonetheless, is beyond me. How is it the ban relates…

Well the President is putting more effort into banning Tik Tok than fighting Covid at the moment.

Re: TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban

#46

Post by zpeti »

oblio wrote: post #25
zpeti wrote: post #10

Will a chinese company really comply with the US court system in terms of discovery? I would question if they are going to comply with discovery in a way that a US company might. What exactly is forcing them to hand over actual documentation and not just forgeries? Will the Chinese court system get them in trouble for that? I doubt it. After all many publically traded chinese companies in the US aren't actually compl…

They will be locked out of the US for sure if they are caught forging stuff and there might be personal liability, too. What happened to the presumption of innocence?

Hard to presume they are innocent when a search for Hong Kong during the protests got you a few dance videos from HK...

Re: TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban

#47

Post by loulouxiv »

ChemSpider wrote: post #4
khuey wrote: post #2

Discovery in this should be fun on both sides.

Yes. It is no surprise that they sue, but maybe that was a mistake. Because depending on the result, it might get TikTok banned in the EU as well. Or the result is that indeed their operation is 100% independent of their Chinese parent company and no US data ever touches mainland China... which would surprise me.

Why would it have any impact on EU ?

Re: TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban

#48

Post by Ygg2 »

ken47 wrote: post #24
ehsankia wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> While I think TikTok is a cesspool Is that referring to the content or the company itself? I don't see how it's any more of a cesspool than any other social platform. Twitter? Facebook? Reddit? Every sufficiently large platform is filled with a very wide range of content, from great to awful. As a company, I do agree they have shady practices, but again, don't most other social media apps such as Facebook and the g…

They're being singled out because they're from China, no?

So? China uses data it gathers to track down and arrest dissident (and/or ship them to organ harvesting/re-education camps). Last time I checked, Facebook isn't owned by US, and US doesn't reeducate their people in such a gut wrenching ways (pun intended).

Re: TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban

#50

Post by JumpCrisscross »

evbpcapfxy wrote: post #5

Why is congress not involved if it's so important? Should the president really have this power?

> Why is congress not involved if it's so important?

Congress creates laws. The President enforces them. This is an enforcement action--it's not unusual for Congress to be uninvolved.

> Should the president really have this power?

Multiple Congresses gave these powers to the President [1][2][3]. The current and next ones are free to take them back.

My personal belief is no, the President shouldn't have this power in the absence of clear and present danger. We need a commission, likely under Commerce and/or State, that assesses civil fines and passes prosecution recommendations to the DoJ. Furthermore, we need legislation describing (a) which countries are deemed economically friendly and economically adversarial, (b) how those determinations are made and (c) what companies from those countries can and cannot do as well as (d) how they may achieve "safe harbor" status (e.g. by locally hosting data and submitting code for periodic review).

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Emergency_Econom...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exon–Florio_Amendment

[3] https://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/international/Docum...

Post reply on HN