Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Data isn't just being collected from your phone, it's being used to score you

chron.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 165 posts

Re: Data isn't just being collected from your phone, it's being used to score you

#61

Post by annoyingnoob »

icedistilled wrote: post #45
annoyingnoob wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least the Chinese system is out in the open. Many private companies surveilling everyone without anyone's knowledge is terrible. Companies using these scores are really only targeting a group of people that allow the collection to happen. My car insurance company would sure love to put a tracker in my car but there is no way in hell that is going to happen. I'm sure my driving style would qualify me for higher rat…

Yes they would, but the flip side of them not being able to price people based on actual driving behavior is by charging all men higher, all single people higher vs married people, and poor people higher based on credit score. Plus why single out insurance companies and ban them from creepily tracking you wherever you go and not all the other companies who do that with your cell phone. Also to be pedantic, the don't…

I was rear-ended in stop-and-go traffic. The same person was behind me for miles. He was looking at his phone and ran into me - totally and completely not my fault. He refused to give me his insurance info. I made a claim against my own insurance. I'm pretty sure the insurance company went after him and recovered costs. How exactly should that influence my rates? This is exactly why I pay for insurance, service I already pay for that is already factored into the costs. I pay extra for the zip code I live in already.

I have no driving record and I've caused no accidents. If I put a tracking device in my car today my rates would go up because I accelerate quickly and brake hard when conditions allow. That is not right.

Re: Data isn't just being collected from your phone, it's being used to score you

#62

Post by t0mmyb0y »

grazhero99 wrote: post #49

Do you guys think there's any realistic hope today (not accounting for what kind of horrible stuff might be possible in the future) of being able to keep your 'genuine' online activities separated from your public facing, sanitized ones? Such that no company's HR department would be able to tie your real life identity to your real online activities? I imagine it could be possible if you're serious and rigorous about…

Yes. Ditch being connected when you don't need to be and think several times before you connect...is it worth it. That's what I have done for a very long time. Almost no data about me exists. I am also very heavy handed with permissions and apps on device. I don't even allow google to install the google app on my device.

Re: Data isn't just being collected from your phone, it's being used to score you

#63

Post by harlanji »

Spooky23 wrote: post #40
Eyght wrote: post #9

I feel like the Chinese style social score system won't have enough support in government for most countries, but we'll receive a decentralized version anyway through corporate overreach. Also, it's always amusing to arrive at an article about data collection and be greeted by this: https://i.imgur.com/d4Z4sdd.png

It’s already happening. Georgia had a anti-opioid program where they could score every pregnant woman in the state for likelihood to become dependent on opioids during pregnancy. Babies born with addiction cost the state about $1M each. There were a few similar programs a few years ago when federal grants were made available. Iirc, they were modeled on the stuff built to identify people vulnerable to becoming extremi…

As a healthy homeless former professional working as a grocery bagger now, I can feel management watching me for signs of drug abuse to explain my ratty clothes and spotty hygeine. Nobody can guess why I’m not working a good job but seem very smart and thorough (slander from boss destroyed reputation). I’m glad to have a job and sorry to show up looking trashy, but it’s the best I can do right now. I am just thankful that they don’t have any data or scores for me yet to help them see a drug addict or boozer, because I know that I’d raise a lot of flags there and it’d be enough to color the suspicion. Metrics are scary, I know my current scores will make things harder for years to come, starting with credit having bombed right down to these corporate/insurer metrics whose systems I was in as a $200K/yr professional. Lots of explaining the data to do if I make it back to pro life.

Re: Data isn't just being collected from your phone, it's being used to score you

#64

Post by orangecat »

grazhero99 wrote: post #49

Do you guys think there's any realistic hope today (not accounting for what kind of horrible stuff might be possible in the future) of being able to keep your 'genuine' online activities separated from your public facing, sanitized ones? Such that no company's HR department would be able to tie your real life identity to your real online activities? I imagine it could be possible if you're serious and rigorous about…

Depends on your threat model. I expect the NSA can easily associate my real identity with my HN account. I don't expect most HR departments to have the ability or inclination.

Re: Data isn't just being collected from your phone, it's being used to score you

#65

Post by unnouinceput »

grazhero99 wrote: post #49

Do you guys think there's any realistic hope today (not accounting for what kind of horrible stuff might be possible in the future) of being able to keep your 'genuine' online activities separated from your public facing, sanitized ones? Such that no company's HR department would be able to tie your real life identity to your real online activities? I imagine it could be possible if you're serious and rigorous about…

Yes, it's possible. Keep your normal public activities boring and straight. For everything else use TOR/VPN/Proxies/etc.

Re: Data isn't just being collected from your phone, it's being used to score you

#66

Post by shuntress »

annoyingnoob wrote: post #61
icedistilled wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes they would, but the flip side of them not being able to price people based on actual driving behavior is by charging all men higher, all single people higher vs married people, and poor people higher based on credit score. Plus why single out insurance companies and ban them from creepily tracking you wherever you go and not all the other companies who do that with your cell phone. Also to be pedantic, the don't…

I was rear-ended in stop-and-go traffic. The same person was behind me for miles. He was looking at his phone and ran into me - totally and completely not my fault. He refused to give me his insurance info. I made a claim against my own insurance. I'm pretty sure the insurance company went after him and recovered costs. How exactly should that influence my rates? This is exactly why I pay for insurance, service I alr…

Your insurance company would prefer to cover people who notice the reckless driver then pull over to get out of their path.

You did not do that, so they raise your rates.

Edit: not that you were at fault or did anything wrong.

My point is that the insurance companies strongest incentive is to pay out as little as possible. This includes payments made where their client was not at fault. If it were up to them, everyone would pay all their premiums on time and never drive.

Re: Data isn't just being collected from your phone, it's being used to score you

#67

Post by techlaw »

There are several comments here about the lack of background info or citations.

The authors have a site which includes their letters to the FTC, etc which provide greater detail and references: https://www.representconsumers.org/surveillance-scoring/

Re: Data isn't just being collected from your phone, it's being used to score you

#68

Post by dcewcrrec »

kebman wrote: post #60
cosmodisk wrote: post #5

People are complex. If some piece of code is used to predict my employability based on my facial expressions, there's not much to add. It's already as bad as it gets: you can't say/write anything non vanilla in public because 10 years later some HR snooping app will analyze the sentiment on the post and outright reject you. And we all kind of blindly walking into this no questions asked.

I remember a party that was very interested in facial measurements. They used it to discriminate too. Why should corporations suddenly get away with this now?

We've entered an awkward twilight zone where companies can do what they want a la Laissez-faire capitalism, which means they can also do exactly the same thing a government would do at exactly the same scale and with similar levels of authority. It is a grey area that hasn't yet been stopped by laws because sometimes companies are so big they influence the laws themselves.

Re: Data isn't just being collected from your phone, it's being used to score you

#69

Post by TeMPOraL »

icedistilled wrote: post #39
Eyght wrote: post #9

I feel like the Chinese style social score system won't have enough support in government for most countries, but we'll receive a decentralized version anyway through corporate overreach. Also, it's always amusing to arrive at an article about data collection and be greeted by this: https://i.imgur.com/d4Z4sdd.png

I mean, it's already standard practice (All states except CA) to use credit score in things like pricing your auto insurance. It's only a tiny leap to incorporate a similar magic number some company comes up with. Actually due to competition, if it correlates to risk, all companies will literally be forced to use the magic numbers or go into an adverse selection death spiral. Unless there is regulation against it, li…

I wonder at which point it becomes a self-fulfilling property - at which point decisions based on data-driven pigeonholing actually lock people on the paths "discovered" in the numbers?

E.g. if a young adult gets classified as "disorderly, drunk, unsuitable for reproduction, suitable only for low-skill work" based on their history of college partying, and then consequently denied work and social opportunities (as everyone doing background checks sees that summary), the prediction essentially becomes a sentence.

(The third season of Westworld, despite bad writing and even worse gunfights, was very good at bringing this point up.)

Re: Data isn't just being collected from your phone, it's being used to score you

#70

Post by dcewcrrec »

grazhero99 wrote: post #49

Do you guys think there's any realistic hope today (not accounting for what kind of horrible stuff might be possible in the future) of being able to keep your 'genuine' online activities separated from your public facing, sanitized ones? Such that no company's HR department would be able to tie your real life identity to your real online activities? I imagine it could be possible if you're serious and rigorous about…

The more energy you put into being anonymous, the more anonymous you are, but it's not an on or off switch. It's like something that can constantly be improved. You can even go as far as changing the way you speak to avoid stylometrics.

The question to ask yourself is 'what can reasonably be found out about me?' You can be found on the smallest trace of evidence, but is it reasonable to expect someone to do that? You're not exactly a government spy. Just take obvious steps like not using your real name and you should be fine.

Post reply on HN