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Cirque Du Soleil Files for Bankruptcy Protection

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Re: Cirque Du Soleil Files for Bankruptcy Protection

#61

Post by barrkel »

l0ner wrote: post #47
m0zg wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> with 153k cases in Florida and 3.5k deaths (2.3%), is it really that bad? You don't even know if it's 3.5K deaths _due to_ COVID in the first place. The way US counts the deaths from this is "unique" in that if someone had COVID when they died, but they did not die _from_ COVID, they're still counted as a COVID death. That's why countries like Russia with much less formidable healthcare systems have "lower" fatalit…

In most countries, if you die having COVID, and you cant exclude COVID as being the cause, you are included in the COVID death count. In russia, if you die having COVID, but yoy also have any other sickness that could be the cause of death, you are not included in the COVID death count. While the former overestimates, the latter underestimates. I dont have any reference to prove it, but my gut feeling tells me that t…

The best statistical tool we have to figure out the real death rate due to COVID is excess mortality, and these numbers have been higher even than the seemingly overattributed numbers.

There are still a bunch of people who die and don't get attributed, and there are people who die because there's a pandemic on and they don't get healthcare as a result, either because there isn't capacity or to avoid infection.

Re: Cirque Du Soleil Files for Bankruptcy Protection

#62

Post by viraptor »

MuffinFlavored wrote: post #24
runawaybottle wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This holiday season is going to be a real test since we won’t have a vaccine by Novemberish. No ones going to fly out to holiday hotspots, or travel for Thanksgiving. Vaccine or bust basically.

I might be like... extra retarded for saying this but... with 153k cases in Florida and 3.5k deaths (2.3%), is it really that bad? I can only imagine how many hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of Florida citizens have it/have had it and had no symptoms and aren't getting tested (which would drive the death percentage down something fierce). I feel like I have a higher chance of dying driving down the street. Am…

It's not just the question of dying, although the numbers seems to be concentrating on that. Some people who don't die are sick for months. Some don't really fully recover, or have lasting effects.

It's a bit like the stats for dying driving. It doesn't include people who survive but lose their legs or can't function independently anymore. In both cases think of the affected percentage which is so much higher.

Re: Cirque Du Soleil Files for Bankruptcy Protection

#63

Post by yread »

econcon wrote: post #44
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #12

The great depression in live performances is truly a global tragedy. If you think restaurants and barbershops have it bad, imagine theaters. For most of them it's basically impossible to do social distancing and remain financially solvent. People may be itching to go out to eat and get a haircut, but it will be a long time before people are going to pack in to an opera house. Couple that with the fact that audiences…

Escorts and strippers (sex workers) also can't perfect with social distancing in mind.

In Netherlands they already work

https://www.insidehook.com/daily_brief/news-opinion/amsterda...

Re: Cirque Du Soleil Files for Bankruptcy Protection

#64

Post by junipertea »

pjc50 wrote: post #60
MuffinFlavored wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I might be like... extra retarded for saying this but... with 153k cases in Florida and 3.5k deaths (2.3%), is it really that bad? I can only imagine how many hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of Florida citizens have it/have had it and had no symptoms and aren't getting tested (which would drive the death percentage down something fierce). I feel like I have a higher chance of dying driving down the street. Am…

9/11 killed about 3k Americans, was it really that bad?

It was definitely terrible for many other countries.

Re: Cirque Du Soleil Files for Bankruptcy Protection

#65

Post by m0zg »

JohnBooty wrote: post #51
m0zg wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> with 153k cases in Florida and 3.5k deaths (2.3%), is it really that bad? You don't even know if it's 3.5K deaths _due to_ COVID in the first place. The way US counts the deaths from this is "unique" in that if someone had COVID when they died, but they did not die _from_ COVID, they're still counted as a COVID death. That's why countries like Russia with much less formidable healthcare systems have "lower" fatalit…

The way US counts the deaths from this is "unique" in that if someone had COVID when they died, but they did not die _from_ COVID, they're still counted as a COVID death That's how diseases work. In a literal sense the only actual cause of death ever is a cessation of cardiovascular function. You don't die "from" AIDS. You die from pnuemonia, malnutrition, opportunistic infections that attack your weakened immune sys…

> the overwhelming probability is that.... yes, it was COVID-19

Even if you had stage 4 cancer and would die in a week anyway?

Then there's the issue of excess deaths caused by _not going to the doctor_ because you can't do "elective" procedures like stents and such, or just because you're afraid of getting infected. You can die of cardiovascular (or other) disease this way, and if you had e.g. asymptomatic covid (like most people who have it) you'd be counted as a COVID death then.

Re: Cirque Du Soleil Files for Bankruptcy Protection

#66

Post by himinlomax »

chrischen wrote: post #53
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #12

The great depression in live performances is truly a global tragedy. If you think restaurants and barbershops have it bad, imagine theaters. For most of them it's basically impossible to do social distancing and remain financially solvent. People may be itching to go out to eat and get a haircut, but it will be a long time before people are going to pack in to an opera house. Couple that with the fact that audiences…

Why can't they just pause and resume (and the employees get unemployment benefits)?

Financial and commercial commitments: mortgages and contracts.

Re: Cirque Du Soleil Files for Bankruptcy Protection

#67

Post by malkuth23 »

paxys wrote: post #58
hobofan wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe around the world is also where they found more success? My parents have been visiting their shows in Germany for the last few years, and they've been sold out (or close to it) every time. I'm sure that the permanent location in Berlin they had planned would've also been a success for at least a few years.

Most of their revenue comes from a handful of long-running shows in Vegas. Tours and international expansions have been, for the most part, failures.

Yeah. Mystere prints money, while the newer shows are often in debt for decades.

Re: Cirque Du Soleil Files for Bankruptcy Protection

#68

Post by malkuth23 »

paxys wrote: post #18

Cirque was in trouble long before COVID. They expanded too quickly around the world and spread themselves too thin. None of their shows in the last ~10 years have been blockbusters (most of them already retired), and the novelty of the original Vegas ones has worn off. They tried a theater division which failed. They had already started to restructure their operations and announced layoffs as early as 2015. I imagine…

The layoffs and restructuring in 2015 was to get slimmer for a sale. Guy sold 90% of the company off right after for 1.5 billion. Cirque has been run by bean counters since even before the sale even went through.

Covid is destroying the entire entertainment industry. Huge entertainment companies, staging and rental industry, broadway theaters, touring etc are just getting hammered. In some ways, Cirque is more likely to come through than most since they have the cash flowing in from Quebec government.

Re: Cirque Du Soleil Files for Bankruptcy Protection

#69

Post by luckylion »

purerandomness wrote: post #56
ipnon wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serious question: will unregulated industries bother with public health orders if they are already ignoring the law to begin with?

Isn't it only the US (in the developed world) criminalizing sex work?

It's mixed. Some countries have it regulated, but legal, others, like Sweden, make it legal to sell sex, but illegal to buy.

Re: Cirque Du Soleil Files for Bankruptcy Protection

#70

Post by m0zg »

prostoalex wrote: post #59
m0zg wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> with 153k cases in Florida and 3.5k deaths (2.3%), is it really that bad? You don't even know if it's 3.5K deaths _due to_ COVID in the first place. The way US counts the deaths from this is "unique" in that if someone had COVID when they died, but they did not die _from_ COVID, they're still counted as a COVID death. That's why countries like Russia with much less formidable healthcare systems have "lower" fatalit…

That’s just one of the approaches, another one is counting excess deaths - delta between predicted and actual mortality rates. It normalizes against external factors, such as poor testing infrastructure or (in some countries) government pressure to keep the numbers low. https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2020/04/16/tracking...

Could it be that a good fraction of those "excess deaths" is caused by people choosing not to seek (or being unable to get) medical help with the conditions they already have? 2.65 million people die in the US in an average year in total, most of things like cancer or heart disease. Some of those things you can treat, some you can't nowadays, because procedures are "elective" and hospitals don't do them.
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