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Epic Games shows jaw-dropping graphics for next-generation consoles

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Re: Epic Games shows jaw-dropping graphics for next-generation consoles

#61

Post by johngunderman »

malkia wrote: post #7

Problem is how to handle worst-case scenarios. With pre-rendered movies that might or might not be a problem, and even if it is - it's production one (e.g. you can't predict how many well for how many days you would render your movie) But for a game - this means dropping the frame rate, making it visually unappealing. That's why Ray-casting would never pick up for real-time games (Unreal most definitely is not doing…

> That's why Ray-casting would never pick up for real-time games (Unreal most definitely is not doing any ray-casting, I'm just giving it as a an extreme example).

I'm not convinced that you are correct here. Although ray-tracing has not been a good option in the past due to processor limitations, we're reaching the point at which it may become feasible. Because ray-tracing scales linearly with the number of cores you use, modern CPUs are fairly well equipped to work with it, albeit at sub-optimal framerates. See the following (from 2007) for reference: http://www.q4rt.de/

Outside of this, consider that the only way vector graphics are allowed to perform at their current level is due to the existence of discrete graphics cards which are optimized for the necessary matrix calculations. If we were to develop discrete cards for ray-tracing, we could potentially see amazing results. For example, in 2009 IBM developed a computer that could run full-scene ray-tracing at 1080p averaging 90 FPS. While I do not know how complex said scene was, I'm optimistic about the future of ray-tracing.

Re: Epic Games shows jaw-dropping graphics for next-generation consoles

#62

Post by mistermann »

narrator wrote: post #42
awj wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, unfortunately as you ramp up on art assets to get to the level of "crazy 3d graphics", the people holding the money tend to want more and more of a sure thing. 'DOOM clone v 29345.2' will inevitably sell boatloads. 'Toasty the toaster & the raspberry jam rebellion', not so much.

Which is why Braid and Minecraft did so well, even though they were largely programmed by single individuals instead of large teams. They took risks that the big studios wouldn't take.

True, but for every Braid, there were how many hundreds or thousands of failures? You can't blame the guys writing the huge cheques these days to expect likely success.

That being said, if they were smart, they'd be setting up some skunkworks projects on relatively small budgets....which I'm not aware of.

Re: Epic Games shows jaw-dropping graphics for next-generation consoles

#63

Post by malkia »

johngunderman wrote: post #61
malkia wrote: post #7

Problem is how to handle worst-case scenarios. With pre-rendered movies that might or might not be a problem, and even if it is - it's production one (e.g. you can't predict how many well for how many days you would render your movie) But for a game - this means dropping the frame rate, making it visually unappealing. That's why Ray-casting would never pick up for real-time games (Unreal most definitely is not doing…

> That's why Ray-casting would never pick up for real-time games (Unreal most definitely is not doing any ray-casting, I'm just giving it as a an extreme example). I'm not convinced that you are correct here. Although ray-tracing has not been a good option in the past due to processor limitations, we're reaching the point at which it may become feasible. Because ray-tracing scales linearly with the number of cores yo…

Just because it scales with the number of cores, it does not mean it would keep fps in reasonable range given random camera position and orientation.

Take a look at Intel's raytracing demo, and when you go close to the lamps (shiny bulby spherical objects with lots of reflections) you get a lot of slowdown (using same amount of cpus).

That's what I'm talking about. Yes you can tweak it, but it loses it's purpose.

Re: Epic Games shows jaw-dropping graphics for next-generation consoles

#64

Post by cageface »

gamble wrote: post #17
flashingleds wrote: post #13

I get the impression (albeit as somebody with nothing to do with the industry) that studios aren't very excited about another generation of hardware because it already takes a huge amount of resources to make a current-generation blockbuster, and profit is not alway guaranteed. The demo is completely amazing and I loved it, but if it "took about three months for 12 programmers and artists to build" this 2 minute scen…

It's safe to say that there's little appetite for a new console generation right now. As in the movie industry, the middle ground in the games industry has been disappearing. Your best shot at turning a profit is either to make small bets on mobile/indie games, or go full-bore for a AAA title with a budget in the double or triple digit millions. Indies don't need another generation of consoles; AAA developers don't w…

I'd like to see the current crop of consoles in a smaller, cooler, quieter form factor.

Re: Epic Games shows jaw-dropping graphics for next-generation consoles

#65

Post by KeithMajhor »

malkia wrote: post #7

Problem is how to handle worst-case scenarios. With pre-rendered movies that might or might not be a problem, and even if it is - it's production one (e.g. you can't predict how many well for how many days you would render your movie) But for a game - this means dropping the frame rate, making it visually unappealing. That's why Ray-casting would never pick up for real-time games (Unreal most definitely is not doing…

Why is real time ray-tracing infeasible?

Re: Epic Games shows jaw-dropping graphics for next-generation consoles

#67

Post by jaysonelliot »

This may be an unfashionable point to raise, but as the line continues to blur between CG and live action, we need to check the ethics of the content we're producing.

When I play a racing game for several hours, I have to check myself before I get behind the wheel of a real car.

What does it do to the mind of a twelve year old to not just see hundreds of graphic acts of violence, but to control them over and over again?

Re: Epic Games shows jaw-dropping graphics for next-generation consoles

#68

Post by shasta »

gamble wrote: post #17
flashingleds wrote: post #13

I get the impression (albeit as somebody with nothing to do with the industry) that studios aren't very excited about another generation of hardware because it already takes a huge amount of resources to make a current-generation blockbuster, and profit is not alway guaranteed. The demo is completely amazing and I loved it, but if it "took about three months for 12 programmers and artists to build" this 2 minute scen…

It's safe to say that there's little appetite for a new console generation right now. As in the movie industry, the middle ground in the games industry has been disappearing. Your best shot at turning a profit is either to make small bets on mobile/indie games, or go full-bore for a AAA title with a budget in the double or triple digit millions. Indies don't need another generation of consoles; AAA developers don't w…

But of course there is someone ready for the next generation of technology: Epic, the ones selling it.

Re: Epic Games shows jaw-dropping graphics for next-generation consoles

#69

Post by nathanlrivera »

emehrkay wrote: post #35
aphyr wrote: post #5

Realtime graphics are finally blurring into stylized film. I expect in another ten years or so we will, for all intents and purposes, have the horsepower to render photorealistic scenes. The bigger problem may be finding ways to create this content without insane amounts of work. Cloth mechanics, particle/hair systems, realtime physics, constrained IK/semirigid body solvers, fractal elaboration, fluid dynamics, proce…

It seems like the more horsepower that these consoles/video cards have, the more opportunity exists to create tools that create part of the graphical experience. IE a toolset that handles creating realtime dynamic forests or cities or hair etc

Auto-generated content is the future. Look at how good Minecraft is. The terrain in that game is all procedurally generated.
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